Depression

As my final word on the subject. I feel for everyone who experiences depression, moodswings, or any other incapacitating and debilitating affliction whatever the cause.

My theses has been from the very beginning that ultimately we must trust the Lord and claim victory. In order to get to that stage, we must first establish a relationship. Each person must become comfortable and not face a pointing finger.Then and only then can one attempt to help that person help themselves in overcoming. This, of course, precludes that a medical examination has taken place to rule out pathological causes.

I have seen some people go on for weeks and even months of counselling. Others have climbed the barriers rather quickly. In the end, we have always praised God in prayer of thanksgiving that through it all we know that God loves us and He will never leave us alone. That is what Christian love is all about.

God bless each one and give us all an understanding heart of love to reach out, lift up and encourage those who feel down for the moment.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Christine --

I realized, by reading what you wrote elsewhere,
that what I wrote here must have bothered you --
something I was unaware of here. I wanted to PM
you privately, asking your forgiveness, but your
PMs are not allowed. Therefore, I am asking for
your forgiveness here.

Being new to this board, you do not realize that
I love the people who are writing on this thread.
Most of the time, the get along well, but I had
been warned to stay away from this thread,
because it was volatile. I did until yesterday,
when I saw people I enjoy becoming very upset.
I could also see WHY they were upset.

I came here to try to insert a little humor, which
is just my way, but as Laurenda said, perhaps this
was not a good time and place for my chosen
input. I admitted that she was probably right and
apologized.

Believe me, Christine, I know depression. I know
it inside and out. I lived in it, was surrounded by
it, and could not shake it for 42 years. You do not
need the sordid details, so I wil just say that sure,
the Lord heals depression. I am a personal
witness to this, when the pills did nothing for me
and mental exercises could only take me so far.
While I highly recommend the mental exercises,
because they brought me to that point at which
healing was possible, and I believe they must be
done, they will not heal, but our God can.

Christine, I am sorry that you, too, are going
through this. In no way did I intend to hurt you
or anyone else here. I love these people.

To all, I apologize for my flippant attitude. I am
sorry that I hurt amyone. I thrive upon humor,
but I recognize that at times, I let if get in the way.

I am profoundly sorry.

 

actually you never offended me at all. I am a passionate person about alot of things, but I rarely take offense unless it is intended. I believe there are some issues that people just cannot agree on, no matter how many discussion they have. When Each and every discussion becomes a debate and/or heated, I think it's time to "agree to disagree". I love my mother more than anything in the world, but there are somethings we just cannot discuss.
The problem here is that the people which have not experienced true depression (not just being sad), just cannot understand how much it really does control you. Therefore, the compassion just is not there.
This is the lesson I was speaking of. I have learned that it is easy to minimize something if you have not experienced it.
I have recently learned this with colic! I always thought it was just a term dr.s threw around to explain a whinny baby. Boy have I learned different. When people say "they cry all the time", it's amazing the stamina and endurance these babies have when it comes to crying.
I was guilty of minimizing others problems, because I have not had them and felt no compassion for them. I believe it is the sin of pride, as well as, being too judgemental of others. I am speaking of myself, so please everyone, DON'T take offense.
Thank you for your concern for my feels and have a good day.

 

((((((((((((( Abiyah ))))))))))))))

I used to be schizophrenic; but we're okay now.

 

Wow! I got a HUG!

8oD

 

you two a great, I needed a smile today. Thanks.

 

Abiyah, I wasn't telling you not to say what you said. I thought it was funny and quite to the point too. Sometimes people do get very passionate about stuff like this and sometimes they go just a step or two over the line. Hey, it happens. I don't think this is the most passionate thread I've ever seen by the way. I think for the most part everyone kept their heads... pardon the pun. No, I would never think you were causing trouble. Don't ever wonder how affectionately I feel about you okay? As far as I'm concerned you have one of the most generous and loving hearts around. Anyone who knows you, knows that you would never hurt anyone intentionally, and honestly, I don't think you would unintentionally either...and that's quite a neat little trick...care to give me some lessons? (sorry, I'm manic today)

You know what I find completely odd? People on the whole react to me better when I'm depressed than when I'm manic, and this just baffles me. You would think dealing with someone who is on the top of the world wouldn't insight the reactions I get. But it does. Human's are just weird.

Laurenda

 

Ah, Laurenda, but I have hurt people, and perhaps
I am a little sensitive to doing so right now
because of some "stuff" I and my family are going
through right now because of illness in the family
as well as insensitive people regarding a familial
incident. 8o)

 

Well, well, well, Twelve pages and we are still spinnin' our wheels in the sand, ain't we?? Not going anywhere while the enemy gets a fix on our position and keeps firin' away!!

I want you guys go to back to the first two posts that really, really started it all off--those of Thankful's and Deacon's.

It seems that there was a survey done in Oklahoma concerning Preacher's and depression and then Deacon gives some of the reasons that preachers can be overwelmed. Then the pages go on and on without even a handful of preachers getting involved in the discussion.

I think though, that Swaimj may be a preacher and then Jim--Oh, If Jim could be my pastor for just a day all of my troubles will go away--God bless your heart, brother--you way up there in Canada's cold and I way down here in Dixie's bliss!!

Now, from a preacher's point of view! Been doing it now for 15 years. Still got a lot to learn. I'm not a know-it-all! But I just want to let you guys know the "why's" of why a preacher can fall into a state of depression. And here is my number one reason---he has to deal with folks!!

My first pastorate was bliss--little country church where all I had to do was to scratch up a sermon or two for Sunday and then visit the widow's and Senior Adults. Not bad! But then I wanted more! There starts my problem! Selfishness! And guess what! I got more!

We took a move to a bigger situation. Bigger situation calls for bigger problems! More people hanging around who are more selfish than I am! Long story short--the sheep started shearin' the shepherd! Everyday, everyday, everyday I was bombarded by selfish folks--pride, envy, hatred. Marriages in church bust up and are blamed on preacher--folks move away and quit comin' to church--must be the preacher's fault!

OOOHHHH, and the heartache and the headaches!! I had a man call me into my office(something is really up when a man says, "Preacher! I need to see you in your office!!!) I thought that was what the preacher was suppose to say!!! Anyway, he looks at me and says this:"With the exception of one or two people in this church--they hate you, preacher!"

I am a WW2 history buff--and what those soldiers felt on the front line was what I was feeling then!! I feel into a slumbering stuper! I began to have phantom pains and soon didn't want to do anything--I thought something was wrong with my heart--big time! So I went to my old family doctor--He hooks me up to the EEG machine--he runs his steathoscope all over my body--he listens, he probes, he presses---"Blackbird! Ain't nothin' wrong with you, man! Your heart is ok--your kidneys and stuff are runnin' fine---Tell me . . . your momma says you're a preacher! Tell me about it!!" Then I unload!! Then he says, "Take some time off for you and your family!"

You see, those 33 percentile preachers up in Oklahoma--maybe, just maybe most of um--their main number one problem just may be the people they have to deal with!! Over and over and over again! Its not that the preacher falls out of God's will--but that the people surrounding him fall out!! And its hooked on the preacher!

I have a buddy preacher who lives over in Georgia--he was wanting to take a little vacation--just him and his family! Well, the deacon's want to know--"Leave a phone number where we can reach you!!"---That preacher doesn't want to hear that!! He doesn't want to be reached! He ain't a doctor! He doesn't have patients on life support! Then the deacons say, "You either leave us your number where we can reach you--or you can just move it on down the line!!!!"

Folks, when I take vacation--here's what I do--I pack up the church's phone list in my suitcase and I tell the deacon chairman--"I'll call YOU if I need YOU!!!!"

It just may be that those 33% of the preachers can't get a grip on the people surrounding them!! When you pastor---you get involved with people--David got involved with the biggest psycho this side of heaven--King Saul!! At times David would play the harp and could charm the evil snake into submission--and at times--David was runnin, runnin', runnin' for his life! Saul's hatred toward David--and David has to deal with it!!

I promise you--If you pastored my situation that would make two of us that would say, "We don't know what to dooooooooo!!!!!!!" The heartache of broken marriages, selfishness, envies, seductions--all being placed on the preacher--and he absorbs it--and if he don't know how to unload what he absorbs--it'll get to him!!

I ain't a psycho--I ain't a nutcase! Nobody is studying me!! Probing my mind!! I ain't on tranquilizer's---I don't need a tranquilizer--I need an enegizer and an equilizer--scan the book of Psalms--primarily written by the preacher David--some by Moses--and some by Soloman and others--primarily preachers who have to deal with people!! Read each psalm carefully--at the beginning of the psalm--deep, dark depression and despair--here is where he's dealing with people who are not right!! Then time and time again--you read on--and toward the end of the passage--He starts dealing with God and God starts dealing with him!! He goes from despair to delight!! Despair to delight!! Despair to delight!! Why?? He gets his mind off of the people and onto the person of the Lord Jesus Christ!

So, here is a preacher speaking and giving an avenue of perhaps one reason so many preachers are in states of despair and gloom! Because he had to deal with people and their sins and their problems!! OOOOHHHHH, but thats just one preacher!! Probably those 33% are being truthful and the other 67% are liars! Maybe, huh!!!?? I don't know a preacher yet--and buddy, I know a bunch of um--who will tell you, "I've got it all together! I am on my toes! I have no problems!" If he says that--folks, he may be lyin'!!

Pray for me always! And pray for your preacher more than that!!!

Your Southern Baptist preachin' buddy,
Blackbird

 

I for one totally understand what you are saying. I was away from my family (I am retired US Navy), for twenty years, and when I go home I get overwhelmed by their problems. There were times I just quit calling because I was taking on all of their problems. I felt like they expected me to fix them. Luckily for me, I could step back any clear my head. Mostly I wanted to just tell them "look all these problems you brought on yourselves, get a grip!" It was things like wife beating, child abuse and DUI's.
This is why I could never have been a psychiatrist, psychologist or a counselor, who do they unload to. I don't have the answer, but I think you are on to something when you say get away, no phones, no contact.
My prayers are with anyone that deals with people.

 

I suspect that depression among pastor's wives would be around 66%.

Cindy

 

After i was called to pray
for preachers, i was called to pray for
preacher's wives TWICE AS MUCH!

May God's rich and full blessings be unto
Sister Preacher's Wife, her family, and
her ministry. Amen!

 

In my church experiences, we pastors were virtually placed on pedestals, whilst our wives were placed on the viewing block. She was open to far more criticism than ever I was. The Lord bless her loving heart.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I'll give you a perfect example of why preachers fall into grief and dispair and anger and stuff like that--

Our church has just finished a major construction project. There are two restrooms to the rear of the church behind the baptistry area hallway. One on either side of the hall. The contractor made little signs to put up--simply "Restroom" on both doors.

Well, I particularly didn't like the idea of men and women sharing restrooms--that unisex stuff that you see in Europe making its way over here to the states--so I get with the contractor--"Can you put up two new signs?? Mark one of the restrooms "Men" and mark the other "Women"? Some of the women don't like the restroom to share with the men and I don't particularily like it either!"

Contractor--"Brother Blackbird! That isn't any problem. I'll have my foreman bring those signs when he comes this week!"

Well, the signs are put up!! Get the picture now! One restroom is marked for men and the other is marked for women--

I go into the back hallway just a few minutes ago and I promise you--somebody has done removed the signs that were marked Men and Women--and I don't particularily like it--

Now, tomorrow I am gonna have to find out who did it--and tell them why those Men and Women signs need to be up there--and I am so afraid that the person who did it is gonna have a little "hissy fit"!! And jump all over me and tell me what they think, blah, blah, blah!

You guys pray for me--cause see--it happens at your church with your preacher and with your people that you live with every day!

Blackbird

 

Sister Thankful,
Those international signs with the figure wearin' a skirt and the other wearin' britches??!! Well, if men can't get the picture--maybe they need to go back to their mother's womb and get born all over again--and this time around they may get it right!!

As Terry Bradshaw(of the famous Pittsburgh Steelers) would say, "Heck! The only player on the field today who wears a skirt and high heels is the Quarterback!!!!!" And us Quarterbacks(the church preacher) should know the difference between somebody wearing a skirt and someone wearing britches!!

Just let the preacher know what you want to do! Say this--"Preacher! Me and my husband--we want to put up these here signs on the bathrooms yonder! Just checkin' with ya!" Now, if the preacher is a good quarterback--sometimes he will receive a play from the bench being brought in to the huddle by the runnin' back--but its the Quarterback who has the ultimate call--but chances are--if its a good play--he'll say something like--"OK! The call is Twenty-three belly veer to the left on three!! Ready?!!!! Break!!!!" Then you and your husband runnnn over to the rooms and plaster that sign up and the pastor will like it!!

Just let him know what's going on--and pray for him every day and every time his name runs through your mind!

I'm your friend,
Blackbird

 

If I can try to add something here that I think might be missing....

Depression is a reaction -- it is not a thing in and of itself, actually.

Yes, it can have totally uncontrollable physical causes. I can guarantee that because I have been a victim. These chemical depressions rarely last more than a day or two, however. For instance, we finally figured out (after 50 some odd years!) that the only way I could really tolerate dental work was under deep sedation. Because I was a chicken? No, not at all (although I never jumped for joy at going to the dentist...), but because something in the local anesthesia injections was breaking down in such a way in my system that anywhere from the afternoon after a morning appointment to a day or even two later, I would end up in what would feel like a profound depression, sobbing on the bed. This started when I was a child, and my parents called me a hypochondriac! I believed them and felt very ashamed of my reaction, but couldn't control it.

It happened at the eye doctor's once, to my great embarrassment. Some kind of local anesthetic he put in my eyes, different from what I had before, ended up causing overwhelming feelings of sadness and I started to cry. I kept saying, "I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know this will pass. Just a moment." sob sob tears...

He looked at me in astonishment and said "I've heard of this reaction before, but I've never seen it for myself before!" and he called in an associate to look at me cry! Oh yuck!

But the chemical was assimilated and within about fifteen or twenty minutes after that one I was fine again.

It's weird. It's uncontrollable. It's real. It is a sudden, or building sadness that becomes so overwhelming that life itself does not seem worth the living. I'm very serious about that! You folks know me well enough on this board to know I don't live in a state of depression, but those chemical depressions are horrid!

The good part is that they do pass!

Can some women have this same reaction to hormone imbalances or some kind of allergy to a substance or something else? I wouldn't be at all surprised. When a normally upbeat person sinks into lethargy and sadness, look for a possible physical cause!

There was a man who lived up the street from us who had evidently inherited one of the weirdest disorders I ever heard of. Sometime around his mid-forties he became withdrawn and depressed. Mid-life crisis? That's what everyone was suspecting. Until he committed suicide. An autopsy showed some chemical way out of kilter in his brain, and the reason they even looked for that was because a number of men in his family had had to deal with this and some had ended their own lives. I don't know what it was, but I know the man was a beloved Christian leader in the community I grew up in.

We need to be very careful about judgments, I think.

Now, all that said, are there depressions that are sin-caused? Oh yeah! Look for a person who thinks mostly of himself and you will find someone who is often or normally depressed. It's a one-two punch.

But perhaps the best way depression can be described is as a reaction. And our bodies have only so many reactions capable to them. As C.S. Lewis once wrote, the stomach lurch you feel when frightened might be the exact same lurch you feel when confronted with something of immense beauty, like an incredible sunset. The lurch must be taken in context to be understood.

I think depression is the same. We can have reactions to physical inbalances, reactions to tragedies or circumstances that can feel overwhelming for awhile, or to our own sins -- and all these can be 'depression.'

It needs to be looked at in context of the history and personality of the person who is depressed.

And always, always, because none of us is God, we need to be compassionate -- as least as long as possible!

 

One of my pastors said something today that
made me thnk of this thread. He said that
sometimes, people are so theologically-minded
that when someone is going through something,
like depression, the person wants to just reel off
Scripture and expect the hurt one to immediately
snap out of it. He said, "It doesn't work that way."
He reminded us that sometimes, the person just
needs someone to listen and even to mourn with
them. How true.

"A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to
mourn, and a time to dance."

I think another problem is that some people want
to just fix everything, and valiantly try, but the
depressed cannot just be fixed with a few
inspirational words.