Did Christ Atone for ALL humans?

[Robert William]

Jesus also taught that you should love your enemies...and that's about as radical as your gonna get. On Sunday, a Baptist Pastor started his sermon with ....."Christ died for all" .....I wanted to walk out. See Id already confronted him with that ....but I held my tongue. I will have coffee with him in the next few & he will hear it again though LOL! :thumbs:

Gotta love them :love2:

:1_grouphug:

I don't know, love rejoices with the truth, I think we are too often tempted to conform at the price of throwing out sound doctrine or to protect our reputation, that's called selfishness. I understand what you are saying about loving them, but sometimes it could be a false love and a trap from Satan.

 

[DHK]

:1_grouphug:

I don't know, love rejoices with the truth, I think we are too often tempted to conform at the price of throwing out sound doctrine or to protect our reputation, that's called selfishness. I understand what you are saying about loving them, but sometimes it could be a false love and a trap from Satan.

Here is the question that one must answer through Scripture.
Did Christ die for all?
Indeed He did.
What does the Scripture say? (and so clearly!)

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

These were false teachers that Peter said brought upon themselves swift destruction. They were obviously not saved. Now look what doctrine they denied.
They denied that the Lord bought them, that is the Christ paid the price of salvation even for those that are condemned. This cannot go unnoticed. Christ did not die just for the elect. He died for all. His blood was shed for all--both elect and damned. This verse teaches it very clearly.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

:1_grouphug:

I don't know, love rejoices with the truth, I think we are too often tempted to conform at the price of throwing out sound doctrine or to protect our reputation, that's called selfishness. I understand what you are saying about loving them, but sometimes it could be a false love and a trap from Satan.

What trap??? When the HS desires to enlighten them then it will happen.... its child's play for Him, us not so much.

and as I told you, I confront a pastor who is the leader of a Baptist church & will continue to....but don't go down that road of dictating to these folks because they are by & large, Saved People. Then you will get a bad reputation as a .....ah....be still & gird your loins...... a "CALVINIST" :laugh:

 

[steaver]

I care --and so have countless others for centuries. He had biblical wisdom with which we should avail ourselves.

We should care what numerous Christians have taught throughout the Church Age. To ignore them or think we know better is a sure mistake. I am not only referencing John Calvin. Augustine, Wycliffe, Luther, Bucer, Turretine, Owen, Goodwin, Bunyan, Haldane, Spurgeon, Ryle, AWP, BBW,Dr.M-L-J, and so many others from the past -not to mention scores of others from the present.

We should read with discernment, but far be it from us to dismiss God-given giants who can help us in our spiritual development.

"Biblical wisdom" "spiritual developement" ?????

The man didn't even understand the milk of the Word, the love of Christ, just as is witnessed daily by many Calvinist on this board.

 

[steaver]

Just curious, but if Christ did not die for all, then how do you evangelize? How do you preach atonement if you do not believe Jesus atoned for all? In order to be honest to yourself and God, you would have to tell a congregation that there are those among you that Christ did not die for, and that He never meant to even offer grace to, and had no intention of saving. That's not a theology I see revealed in the scriptures.

Bingo! They have to hide their views on this when they evangelize. :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

Here is the question that one must answer through Scripture.
Did Christ die for all?
Indeed He did.
What does the Scripture say? (and so clearly!)

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

These were false teachers that Peter said brought upon themselves swift destruction. They were obviously not saved. Now look what doctrine they denied.
They denied that the Lord bought them, that is the Christ paid the price of salvation even for those that are condemned. This cannot go unnoticed. Christ did not die just for the elect. He died for all. His blood was shed for all--both elect and damned. This verse teaches it very clearly.

Once again thank you for bringing sound reasoning backed with scripture. It is refreshing after all the John Calvin contamination of scripture we continue to see. :thumbs:

 

[Rippon]

"Biblical wisdom" "spiritual developement" ?????

The man didn't even understand the milk of the Word, the love of Christ,

You are entirely uninformed. You need to dip into his works instead of speaking out of ignorance.

 

[steaver]

You are entirely uninformed. You need to dip into his works instead of speaking out of ignorance.

Wouldn't say entirely. Just read some of the unchristlike comments by John's followers.

 

[DHK]

Once again thank you for bringing sound reasoning backed with scripture. It is refreshing after all the John Calvin contamination of scripture we continue to see. :thumbs:

Once the truth of that Scripture leapt out at me, I wondered how can anyone believe in the error of a Limited Atonement. Impossible.
Christ died for the sins of all men. No one can circumvent that verse (2Pet.2:1) without serious scripture denial.

 

[Rippon]

Wouldn't say entirely.

Then, what indeed of Calvin's material have you read?

Just read some of the unchristlike comments by John's followers.

What are you talking about? John's followers? What John? The author of the 4th gospel,three epistles, and Revelation, or someone else?

 

[steaver]

Then, what indeed of Calvin's material have you read?

What are you talking about? John's followers? What John? The author of the 4th gospel,three epistles, and Revelation, or someone else?

CertaInly not the apostle John. John Calvin of course

 

[Rippon]

Just curious, but if Christ did not die for all, then how do you evangelize? How do you preach atonement if you do not believe Jesus atoned for all? In order to be honest to yourself and God, you would have to tell a congregation that there are those among you that Christ did not die for, and that He never meant to even offer grace to, and had no intention of saving. That's not a theology I see revealed in the scriptures.

Just two examples of men who certainly did not believe or teach that Jesus died for each and every person who ever lived --George Whitefield and Charles H. Spurgeon. They certainly were evangelistic --it can't be denied. Yet they did not hold to your notion that Christ died for all. They did not hide the fact. Neither does anyone else who preaches the death of Christ for His own.

 

[Rippon]

CertaInly not the apostle John. John Calvin of course

I honestly had no idea what you were talking about. We don't follow John Calvin --but Christ. But it is foolish to dismiss the works of spiritual giants such as John Calvin if you sincerely want to grow in the wisdom and knowledge of the Word of God.

 

[steaver]

I honestly had no idea what you were talking about. We don't follow John Calvin --but Christ. But it is foolish to dismiss the works of spiritual giants such as John Calvin if you sincerely want to grow in the wisdom and knowledge of the Word of God.

I do not consider men who desired/desire the death of another brother in Christ as spiritual Giants. Doesn't matter if they are Calvinist or not. You will know them by their fruits. One can be full of bible and void of Jesus Christ.

 

[DHK]

I honestly had no idea what you were talking about. We don't follow John Calvin --but Christ. But it is foolish to dismiss the works of spiritual giants such as John Calvin if you sincerely want to grow in the wisdom and knowledge of the Word of God.

And other Calvinists tell me that "Calvinism" is rooted in the scriptures and not in the man.
I will be sure to remind them that you differ on that point. It is difficult to prove TULIP from the Scriptures without Calvin isn't it?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I care --and so have countless others for centuries. He had biblical wisdom with which we should avail ourselves.

We should care what numerous Christians have taught throughout the Church Age. To ignore them or think we know better is a sure mistake. I am not only referencing John Calvin. Augustine, Wycliffe, Luther, Bucer, Turretine, Owen, Goodwin, Bunyan, Haldane, Spurgeon, Ryle, AWP, BBW,Dr.M-L-J, and so many others from the past -not to mention scores of others from the present.

We should read with discernment, but far be it from us to dismiss God-given giants who can help us in our spiritual development.

They are only men Rippon. I esteem many on your list and I am even use CHS to teach my wife but...they are all just men. My reliance is in the Word.

 

[Rippon]

And other Calvinists tell me that "Calvinism" is rooted in the scriptures and not in the man.
I will be sure to remind them that you differ on that point.

Why do you object to my sentence :"We don't follow John Calvin --but Christ."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You are entirely uninformed. You need to dip into his works instead of speaking out of ignorance.

Have you ever readCalvins Institutes? Sorry this was supposed to be directed to Steaver.

 

[Rippon]

They are only men Rippon. I esteem many on your list and I am even use CHS to teach my wife but...they are all just men. My reliance is in the Word.

There is no contradiction. God has raised up men throughout the centuries to better understand the Word of God. To ignore their works is foolish.

 

[Rippon]

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

These were false teachers that Peter said brought upon themselves swift destruction. They were obviously not saved. Now look what doctrine they denied.
They denied that the Lord bought them, that is the Christ paid the price of salvation even for those that are condemned. This cannot go unnoticed. Christ did not die just for the elect. He died for all. His blood was shed for all--both elect and damned. This verse teaches it very clearly.

If you would like to start a thread on the subject of that text then do so. This thread is a bit unwieldly as it is. And shortly, I suspect, will be closed down.

The Scriptures are clear that Christ did indeed die for His elect, His beloved, His Church, His sheep. There are all sorts of designations for the same select individuals that he specifically laid down His life for.