Did Christ die two deaths?

[Van]

Since Jesus was God in the flesh, the orthodox view is that Christ's "soul" is the Second Person of the Trinity. When He gave His Spirit up, He physically died.

Several questions arise from the claim Jesus died twice. Do you mean a spiritual death, separation from God, and a physical death, the spirit leaves the body?

Do you equate "forsaken" with separation and thus "spiritual death?"

Problems, it is outside rational thought to claim God died or a person of the Trinity was separated from the other Two Persons.

Christ only had ONE spirit, not two.

Let us consider John 19:28:

After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, in order that the Scripture would be fulfilled, *said, “I am thirsty.”

Here "all things had been accomplished yet scripture still needed to be fulfilled. Thus "all things" may not address His pending physical death, and therefore His death once for all.

 

[37818]

Since Jesus was God in the flesh, the orthodox view is that Christ's "soul" is the Second Person of the Trinity. When He gave His Spirit up, He physically died.

Several questions arise from the claim Jesus died twice. Do you mean a spiritual death, separation from God, and a physical death, the spirit leaves the body?

Do you equate "forsaken" with separation and thus "spiritual death?"

Problems, it is outside rational thought to claim God died or a person of the Trinity was separated from the other Two Persons.

Christ only had ONE spirit, not two.

Let us consider John 19:28:

After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, in order that the Scripture would be fulfilled, *said, “I am thirsty.”

Here "all things had been accomplished yet scripture still needed to be fulfilled. Thus "all things" may not address His pending physical death, and therefore His death once for all.

The distinction being made that there is only one death for the payment for our sins. Mark 10:45, ". . . For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his | soul | a ransom for many. . . ." Hebrews 10:10.
The Greek word τετελεσται
and it's grammar only occurs twice, with the understood meaning, paid in full.

 

[asterisktom]

How is Mac wrong? The accepted definition of spiritual death is separation from God. Do you use a different definition of spiritual death or do you contend Jesus did not experience separation from His Father?

"Accepted definition"? By whom?

Yes, Christ was separated from the Father. Of course. But spiritual death means death of the Spirit. If Christ died spiritually then He would also have lost His deity, His eternality. Yet we know this is not so.

 

[Reynolds]

"Accepted definition"? By whom?

Yes, Christ was separated from the Father. Of course. But spiritual death means death of the Spirit. If Christ died spiritually then He would also have lost His deity, His eternality. Yet we know this is not so.

Please quote a theology book that defines spiritual death that way.
"Separation from The Father", ""Separation from God", "Separation from God for a point in time" will be the definition almost always used.

 

[asterisktom]

Please quote a theology book that defines spiritual death that way.
"Separation from The Father", ""Separation from God", "Separation from God for a point in time" will be the definition almost always used.

The burden is on you, not me, to defend your strange definition of spiritual death being separation.

Your view would mean a wrong view of the Atonement and the Atoner.

“Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit” (Luke 23:46)
This was after Christ’s crying out “My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?’ (when Jesus’s spiritual death supposedly happened). Therefore we would have Christ first dying spiritually and then, after calling God “Father”, yielding up – again (?) – His spirit! Does that make sense?

Can God (an Essentially Spiritual Being – John 4:24) die spiritually? If so, can He then “come back” to being God? If Christ died spiritually, then He would cease to be God.

He came, He lived, He died – voluntarily. He lays His life down. He takes it up.
Another verse that precludes Christ’s spiritual death is John 10:18:

“No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.”

Christ lays His life down by His own power.
Christ takes His life again by His own power.
Spiritual death of Christ would make this impossible.

If Christ, at this point, was both spiritually and physically dead where did His inherent power to take it up again reside in Himself?

 

[Reynolds]

What is your precise definition of Spiritual death?

 

[Reynolds]

"Separation from God caused by sin "
Wayne Grudem. Systematic Theology, zondervan.


The sin that caused this separation was my sin.

Your citation?

 

[asterisktom]

My citations are from the only inspired theological Book. And you ignored what I wrote. What theologians write is not as important. as what the Bible says. Also, you are shifting the focus. We were speaking of the supposed spiritual death of Christ, not how our sin separates us from God.

If Christ was spiritually dead how did He have the power to take his life up again?

 

[37818]

If Christ was spiritually dead how did He have the power to take his life up again?

The terminology "spiritually dead" re: Mark 15:34, maybe the wrong terminology. He ceased being a man, per Psalms 22:6, He did not cease being God per Hebrews 1:3.

 

[Reynolds]

My citations are from the only inspired theological Book. And you ignored what I wrote. What theologians write is not as important. as what the Bible says. Also, you are shifting the focus. We were speaking of the supposed spiritual death of Christ, not how our sin separates us from God.

If Christ was spiritually dead how did He have the power to take his life up again?

You and me both agree on what the Bible says. We agree on what Christ did. You have a definition of Spiritual death that is outside the accepted definition.

He was spiritually separated from The Father. He was still God the Son. He still had the power of God the Son. He was separated from His Father and thus experienced spiritual death.

Then throw Romans 8:11 in and ...

"Spiritual death" is not a term that is defined in Scripture. Like "Trinity" it is a term man uses to understand theological concepts. It does not mean spiritual annihilation. It means separation from The Father.

 

[asterisktom]

You and me both agree on what the Bible says. We agree on what Christ did. You have a definition of Spiritual death that is outside the accepted definition.

He was spiritually separated from The Father. He was still God the Son. He still had the power of God the Son. He was separated from His Father and thus experienced spiritual death.

Then throw Romans 8:11 in and ...

Your verse has "Spirit" in it. And it has "dead in it" But that does not add up to Jesus having died spiritually.

Sorry, but we do not agree with what the Bible says on this. The fact that you still do not answer my points gives the impression that you really have no answer for them.

 

[percho]

What did Jesus finish before His physical death in John 19:28?

How?

IMHO

Because of becoming sin, he gave his life a ransom. He did not die before he died. He breathed his last by dismissing the spirit of himself, into the hands of the Father.

IMHO

Christ died. Christ was dead three days. Christ was raised out of the dead, in incorruptible body. No more to see corruption neither death Acts 13:34 Rom 6:9.

 

[percho]

Sin was finished. To the flesh. 1 Peter 3:18



for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in (unto) the (unto) flesh,

Christ was made sin on the cross.

James 1:11 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Christ gave his life. Christ died for our sins.

Genesis 2:17 YLT and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

That's what Christ did, Dying he died.

 

[Marooncat79]

MacArthur is wrong

if Christ died spiritually, He ceased to be God (God is eternal)

fire away

 

[Marooncat79]

You missed the point by ten miles. I said "even Macarthur" because he is the one so famous for opposing Kenneth Copeland teaching of Christ being tortured and resurrected in Hell. Even Macarthur, the most vocal opponent of the WOF teaching of Jesus tortured in Hell, readily admits and teaches Jesus suffered spiritual death.

do you know what book and page?

TIA

 

[Marooncat79]

How is Mac wrong? The accepted definition of spiritual death is separation from God. Do you use a different definition of spiritual death or do you contend Jesus did not experience separation from His Father?

I would disagree

Spiritual Death is the condemnation of the Soul to hell

 

[37818]

Issues.
The soul is mortal. [Ezekiel 18:4]
God is omnipresent.
The lost dead souls suffer forever.
What never dies is called their worm.
[Mark 9:48]
[Mark 10:45, Mark 15:34, Psalms 22:6]

 

[Reynolds]

Your verse has "Spirit" in it. And it has "dead in it" But that does not add up to Jesus having died spiritually.

Sorry, but we do not agree with what the Bible says on this. The fact that you still do not answer my points gives the impression that you really have no answer for them.

I did answer them. Jesus maintained at all times His deity. That answers your posts.
You have yet to define for me what is your definition of spiritual death.

 

[Reynolds]

I would disagree

Spiritual Death is the condemnation of the Soul to hell

That is the final state of it. Eternal separation.

 

[Reynolds]

MacArthur is wrong

if Christ died spiritually, He ceased to be God (God is eternal)

fire away

What verse proves that? What verse proves or even supports that separation from The Father causes Jesus to cease to be God?