Did Christ die two deaths?

[Eternally Grateful]

Utterly bogus viewpoint!

Without the shedding of blood - a reference to physical death, not spiritual death, there is no forgiveness of sin.

Since Jesus still had His Spirit, God had not left Him.

No need to describe the scope of "it is finished" to include Christ's death, when He had not died yet. And btw, if God had departed, who was Christ talking to when He said "why have you forsaken Me? Did Jesus not know God was gone, or was Jesus right and God was not gone.

Ditto for commending His Spirit to God must mean God was available to receive His Spirit. Thus the supposed wall of separation was not present.

Jesus died ONCE for all, not twice.

MY GOD MY GOD WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME

The word forsake means to depart from. To abandon.

God can not deal with sin. Sin caused the death (spiritual) of all mankind. Spiritual death is the penalty of sin. If jesus did not die spiritually. Your still dead in your sin.

The moment our sin was placed on Christ. God the father and Holy Spirit HAD to turn their back on him. Because they can NOT be in the presence of sin. Redemption had to take place first. Jesus shed his blood on the cross WHILE he died spiritually, yet was still physically alive. He screamed because he was seperated from the trinity for the first time in eternity.

No need to describe the scope when he had not died yet? What a sham!! Jesus said paid in full. It is done it is completed. It is finished.

There was NOTHING further that was needed.

You want to call Jesus a liar. Feel free. But in claiming he sinned. You claim his is no longer the perfect sacrifice, and yoru still dead in yoru sin.

 

[percho]

1 Cor 15: 22-25 YLT or even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, (1) a first-fruit Christ, afterwards (2) those who are the Christ's, in his presence, then (3 ?) -- the end when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power -- for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --

V 26 the last enemy is (being) done away (vi Pres Pas 3 Sg) -- death;

What is the second death, the death, thereof?

Rev 21:4 YLT and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, because the first things did go away.'

Where did, the death, go?

Physical or spiritual, I wonder?

 

[percho]

MY GOD MY GOD WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME

The word forsake means to depart from. To abandon.

God can not deal with sin. Sin caused the death (spiritual) of all mankind. Spiritual death is the penalty of sin. If jesus did not die spiritually. Your still dead in your sin.

The moment our sin was placed on Christ. God the father and Holy Spirit HAD to turn their back on him. Because they can NOT be in the presence of sin. Redemption had to take place first. Jesus shed his blood on the cross WHILE he died spiritually, yet was still physically alive. He screamed because he was seperated from the trinity for the first time in eternity.

No need to describe the scope when he had not died yet? What a sham!! Jesus said paid in full. It is done it is completed. It is finished.

There was NOTHING further that was needed.

You want to call Jesus a liar. Feel free. But in claiming he sinned. You claim his is no longer the perfect sacrifice, and yoru still dead in yoru sin.

How about he died, once? Gen 2:17 YLT and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

Then, after three days, God the Father raised Jesus Christ out of the dead. Gal 1:1

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How about he died, once? Gen 2:17 YLT and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

Then, after three days, God the Father raised Jesus Christ out of the dead. Gal 1:1

Adam died the day he ate of the tree. and from that moment, the whole human race was born DEAD,

In Adam all die. even though in Christ shall all be made alive.

We must be born again, because we were spiritually dead. separated from God. Spiritual death is the penalty of sin. Not physical death. As the verse which was posted says, He was MADE ALIVE in the spirit.

Unlike us, he was born, as Adam was created. spiritually alive. So in order for him to be "Made alive" he would have had to have been "made dead"

just like us.

And you he has MADE ALIVE who was dead in trespasses and sin

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1 Cor 15: 22-25 YLT or even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, (1) a first-fruit Christ, afterwards (2) those who are the Christ's, in his presence, then (3 ?) -- the end when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power -- for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --

V 26 the last enemy is (being) done away (vi Pres Pas 3 Sg) -- death;

What is the second death, the death, thereof?

Rev 21:4 YLT and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, because the first things did go away.'

Where did, the death, go?

Physical or spiritual, I wonder?

1 cor 15 speaks of spiritual death. That "all die: is in action UNTIL you are "made alive" which is also called being born again. You do not have to be born again if your already alive.

vs 26 is physical death. Oh death where is your sting!!

as for the second death.

Once again, that is spiritual death. Seperation from God, only this time, for all eternity. It is not physical death.

 

[Van]

MY GOD MY GOD WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME

The word forsake means to depart from. To abandon.

God can not deal with sin. Sin caused the death (spiritual) of all mankind. Spiritual death is the penalty of sin. If jesus did not die spiritually. Your still dead in your sin.

The moment our sin was placed on Christ. God the father and Holy Spirit HAD to turn their back on him. Because they can NOT be in the presence of sin. Redemption had to take place first. Jesus shed his blood on the cross WHILE he died spiritually, yet was still physically alive. He screamed because he was seperated from the trinity for the first time in eternity.

No need to describe the scope when he had not died yet? What a sham!! Jesus said paid in full. It is done it is completed. It is finished.

There was NOTHING further that was needed.

You want to call Jesus a liar. Feel free. But in claiming he sinned. You claim his is no longer the perfect sacrifice, and yoru still dead in yoru sin.

Did I claim Jesus sinned? No I did not. Why have you "forsaken" truth?

Does God deal with sin? Can God eternally punish sinners? Yes
Can God forgive our sin and remember it no more forever? Yes

Do you know that Jesus was fulfilling scripture when He asked the "why have you forsaken Me" question? See Psalm 2. His question fulfilled the prophecy of the Lord's anointed being left to suffer as the Lamb of God. The question was rhetorical, meant to cause those hearing to realize who Christ is.

God was still with Him, as the Trinity is inseparable, one God in three persons.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did I claim Jesus sinned? No I did not. Why have you "forsaken" truth?

Did I claim you claimed Jesus sinned. No I did not why are you trying to TWIST what I said?

Does God deal with sin? Can God eternally punish sinners? Yes
Can God forgive our sin and remember it no more forever? Yes

Not without payment he can not. Love can not over rule his justice.. If it could the cross would never have needed to happen.

Do you know that Jesus was fulfilling scripture when He asked the "why have you forsaken Me" question? See Psalm 2. His question fulfilled the prophecy of the Lord's anointed being left to suffer as the Lamb of God. The question was rhetorical, meant to cause those hearing to realize who Christ is.

God was still with Him, as the Trinity is inseparable, one God in three persons.

God departed and forsook him, BECAUSE YOUR SIN AND MY SIN WAS PLACED ON HIS BODY

It was in that moment his greatest agony started.. and the spirit of God departed from him.. Spiritually seperated from the father and the spirit. they turned their back, because they can not look upon sin.

once again, If jesus did not die spiritually, the penalty of sin is not yet paid. and we are still dead on our sin.

 

[Piper]

If Jesus did not die spiritually. Your still dead in your sin.

Jesus said IT IS FINISHED before he died physically.

That proves absolutely nothing. Saying it is finished does not prove he died a "Spiritual Death." That is conjecture, weak implication, and not true.

Jesus died once for all.

The Bible repeats that over and over, and you seem to think that your weak implication overrules the clear statements of Scripture? You, my dear friend have a strange way of interpreting God's Word.

 

[Van]

Did I claim you claimed Jesus sinned. No I did not why are you trying to TWIST what I said?

You want to call Jesus a liar. Feel free. But in claiming he sinned. You claim his is no longer the perfect sacrifice, and yoru still dead in yoru sin.

We seem to have another time-waster just posting to hide truth.

 

[Van]

[QUOTE="Eternally Grateful, post: 2814507, member: 21450"

God departed and forsook him, BECAUSE YOUR SIN AND MY SIN WAS PLACED ON HIS BODY

It was in that moment his greatest agony started.. and the spirit of God departed from him.. Spiritually seperated from the father and the spirit. they turned their back, because they can not look upon sin.

once again, If jesus did not die spiritually, the penalty of sin is not yet paid. and we are still dead on our sin.[/QUOTE]

No verse supports God is separated from God in the flesh. It is simply an absurd fiction posted by truth deniers.

Was Jesus talking to God? Yes Did Jesus commend His Spirit to God? Yes.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That proves absolutely nothing. Saying it is finished does not prove he died a "Spiritual Death." That is conjecture, weak implication, and not true.

Jesus died once for all.

The Bible repeats that over and over, and you seem to think that your weak implication overrules the clear statements of Scripture? You, my dear friend have a strange way of interpreting God's Word.

Saying it is finished PROVES the penalty of sin was PAID IN FULL.

If the penalty of sin is death. By defenition. Saying it is finished proves he always died.

Don;t tell me something is not true. And then fail to respond HOW jesus could say it is finished without the sin debt being paid in full (the literal meaning of the word)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We seem to have another time-waster just posting to hide truth.

Yet you have failed to prove anything I said was wrong about Jesus.

I misread you, I thought you or someone said he sinned, That was not the case.

You still have failed to prove your point. Instead of trying to deflect. Why do you not answer my question

 

[Eternally Grateful]

[QUOTE="Eternally Grateful, post: 2814507, member: 21450"

God departed and forsook him, BECAUSE YOUR SIN AND MY SIN WAS PLACED ON HIS BODY

It was in that moment his greatest agony started.. and the spirit of God departed from him.. Spiritually seperated from the father and the spirit. they turned their back, because they can not look upon sin.

once again, If jesus did not die spiritually, the penalty of sin is not yet paid. and we are still dead on our sin.

No verse supports God is separated from God in the flesh. It is simply an absurd fiction posted by truth deniers.

Was Jesus talking to God? Yes Did Jesus commend His Spirit to God? Yes.[/QUOTE]
Lol

The penalty of sin IS DEATH

Jesus TOOK THE PENALTY OF SIN in our place.

Hence JESUS DIED

Physical death IS NOT TH PENALTY OF SIN, it is one of the major CONSEQUENCES of sin

I do not need scripture (ac tally I do have a scripture My God My God why have you DEPARTED FROM me. (This is spiritual death)

If jesus did not die spiritually. Your still dead in yoru sin. Period.. Whatever you claim. Your dead.

 

[Van]

Yet you have failed to prove anything I said was wrong about Jesus.

I misread you, I thought you or someone said he sinned, That was not the case.

You still have failed to prove your point. Instead of trying to deflect. Why do you not answer my question

Folks, personal incredulity does not provide anything but a worn out logical fallacy argument. Did you see where my view was addressed? Neither did I.

Did God "depart" or forsake Jesus such that God was unable to hear Christ? Nope. Unable to receive Christ's Spirit? Nope

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Folks, personal incredulity does not provide anything but a worn out logical fallacy argument. Did you see where my view was addressed? Neither did I.

Did God "depart" or forsake Jesus such that God was unable to hear Christ? Nope. Unable to receive Christ's Spirit? Nope

Lol

Talk about a logical fallacy

Did jesus die as adam died the moment adam sinned?

Did Jesus suffer the penalty we all ow God. Our separation. Which if not resolved will be permanent? Yes he did

If he did not. Your still dead in your sin.

God hears even those who are spiritually dead. If he did not. No one could be saved,

 

[Van]

Lol

Talk about a logical fallacy

Did jesus die as adam died the moment adam sinned?

Did Jesus suffer the penalty we all ow God. Our separation. Which if not resolved will be permanent? Yes he did

If he did not. Your still dead in your sin.

God hears even those who are spiritually dead. If he did not. No one could be saved,

More change of subject deflection on display.
Since Jesus did not sin, Jesus did not die as Adam died the moment Adam sinned.
Did Jesus suffer the separation brought about by unholiness? Nope

Here EG claims Jesus suffered the penalty of separation. But no verse is listed. Go figure. Remember, speculation is the mother of false doctrine.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

More change of subject deflection on display.
Since Jesus did not sin, Jesus did not die as Adam died the moment Adam sinned.
Did Jesus suffer the separation brought about by unholiness? Nope

See there you go with the did not sin thing.

He did not sin. MY SIN WAS IMPUTED TO HIM. He was MADE SIN in my place.

Here EG claims Jesus suffered the penalty of separation. But no verse is listed. Go figure. Remember, speculation is the mother of false doctrine.

See here we go again.

My God My God why has thou FORSAKEN (departed from me)

The penalty of sin is DEATH (Spiritual)

For as in adam ALL DIE

We who were DEAD in sin, are made alive.

You can claim no verses until till your blue in the face. Your wrong.. I have been issuing these verses the whole time.

 

[Van]

See there you go with the did not sin thing.

He did not sin. MY SIN WAS IMPUTED TO HIM. He was MADE SIN in my place.

See here we go again.

My God My God why has thou FORSAKEN (departed from me)

The penalty of sin is DEATH (Spiritual)

For as in adam ALL DIE

We who were DEAD in sin, are made alive.

You can claim no verses until till your blue in the face. Your wrong.. I have been issuing these verses the whole time.

LOL,
1) Did EG cite a verse that says our sin was "imputed" to Christ? Nope as the claim is a fiction.
2) Did EG equate "forsaken" with "the separation caused by sin?" Yes, but just another fiction.
3) Is the fact the penalty of sin is spiritual death, separation from God in dispute? Nope so obfuscation.
4) Is all die in Adam in dispute? Nope so more obfuscation
5) Is the fact those saved were made alive together with Christ in dispute? Nope so yet more obfuscation.

Thus all the verses "issued" by EG are non-germane.

Did EG respond to the rebuttal, "forsaken" refers to Christ alone being left to suffer and die alone, on the cross alone for the sin of the world alone. Or that the question was rhetorical for the purpose of reminding hearers of who Jesus was, the suffering servant described in Psalm 2? Not a word.

 

[37818]

LOL,
1) Did EG cite a verse that says our sin was "imputed" to Christ? Nope as the claim is a fiction.
2) Did EG equate "forsaken" with "the separation caused by sin?" Yes, but just another fiction.
3) Is the fact the penalty of sin is spiritual death, separation from God in dispute? Nope so obfuscation.
4) Is all die in Adam in dispute? Nope so more obfuscation
5) Is the fact those saved were made alive together with Christ in dispute? Nope so yet more obfuscation.

Thus all the verses "issued" by EG are non-germane.

Did EG respond to the rebuttal, "forsaken" refers to Christ alone being left to suffer and die alone, on the cross alone for the sin of the world alone. Or that the question was rhetorical for the purpose of reminding hearers of who Jesus was, the suffering servant described in Psalm 2? Not a word.

You are not making anything understandable here.

 

[Van]

You are not making anything understandable here.

You did not contribute anything but the fallacy of personal incredulity here.

1) Did EG cite a verse that says our sin was "imputed" to Christ? Nope as the claim is a fiction.
2) Did EG equate "forsaken" with "the separation caused by sin?" Yes, but just another fiction.
3) Is the fact the penalty of sin is spiritual death, separation from God in dispute? Nope so obfuscation.
4) Is all die in Adam in dispute? Nope so more obfuscation
5) Is the fact those saved were made alive together with Christ in dispute? Nope so yet more obfuscation.

Thus all the verses "issued" by EG are non-germane.

Did EG respond to the rebuttal, "forsaken" refers to Christ alone being left to suffer and die alone, on the cross alone for the sin of the world alone. Or that the question was rhetorical for the purpose of reminding hearers of who Jesus was, the suffering servant described in Psalm 2? Not a word.