Good grief, are you really unable to discern my view is Jesus died once for all, a physical and not a spiritual death?
And BTW, the view that all things did not include His pending physical death is not speculation but logical necessity.
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Did Christ die two deaths?
- Thread starter Piper
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And BTW, the view that all things did not include His pending physical death is not speculation but logical necessity.
Rom 6:10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
Says it all!!!!!
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
I am late. and have not read all the threads but here is my 2 cents. for what it is worth.
Yes, he died two deaths
1. The penalty of sin was NOT physical death, Physical death could not pay for sin. if it could then everyone would pay for their own sins when they died physically.
Adam was told. in the day you eat of the tree. you will die.
Scripture shows he literally died that day (spiritual death) as we see how he reacted to God. and how the things of God became unknown to him (he covered his nakedness. He blame shifted, as if God did not know the truth as a few examples) he died physically some 900 years later
2. Jesus also showed signs of spiritual death. At the 9th hour. when he literally screamed bloody murder "my God My God why hast though forsaken (departed from) me.. He was beat to the point of death, He face so pumelled. it was unrecognizable. yet he spoke not a word. why? Because he was still in unison with the father and the spirit. who comforted him. when that was removed (spiritual death) all the agony of our sins immediately was felt. and in that moment he screamed,
3. Jesus said, it is finished.. Tetelestai was a legal term which was a document which read. "paid in full" Jesus literally made the statement that the penalty of sin was "paid in full" or it is finished.. This was before he died physically.
4. The penalty of sin was death. so if the penalty was Paid in full" then Jesus had to have already died.
5. No one actually killed Jesus physically. He could have come off the cross and set up his kingdom. He gave up the ghost (father into your hands I commit my spirit) He had to do this so he could be resurrected (for our benefit)
Yes, he died two deaths
1. The penalty of sin was NOT physical death, Physical death could not pay for sin. if it could then everyone would pay for their own sins when they died physically.
Adam was told. in the day you eat of the tree. you will die.
Scripture shows he literally died that day (spiritual death) as we see how he reacted to God. and how the things of God became unknown to him (he covered his nakedness. He blame shifted, as if God did not know the truth as a few examples) he died physically some 900 years later
2. Jesus also showed signs of spiritual death. At the 9th hour. when he literally screamed bloody murder "my God My God why hast though forsaken (departed from) me.. He was beat to the point of death, He face so pumelled. it was unrecognizable. yet he spoke not a word. why? Because he was still in unison with the father and the spirit. who comforted him. when that was removed (spiritual death) all the agony of our sins immediately was felt. and in that moment he screamed,
3. Jesus said, it is finished.. Tetelestai was a legal term which was a document which read. "paid in full" Jesus literally made the statement that the penalty of sin was "paid in full" or it is finished.. This was before he died physically.
4. The penalty of sin was death. so if the penalty was Paid in full" then Jesus had to have already died.
5. No one actually killed Jesus physically. He could have come off the cross and set up his kingdom. He gave up the ghost (father into your hands I commit my spirit) He had to do this so he could be resurrected (for our benefit)
In the pinned post from 2006, Dr. Bob (Administrator) (Who, by the way went to the same schools I did) said this:
5. Certain terms are OFF-LIMITS in this forum in the name of civility and discussion:
To label someone (individually) or a post (corporately) as "perverted," "satanic," "demonic," "cultic," "heretical," "sacrilegious," etc, is counter-productive to discussion and learning.
Because of this, I will not refer to people who say that Jesus died two deaths as heretical. However, if I were permitted, I would certainly do the aforementioned name calling.
5. Certain terms are OFF-LIMITS in this forum in the name of civility and discussion:
To label someone (individually) or a post (corporately) as "perverted," "satanic," "demonic," "cultic," "heretical," "sacrilegious," etc, is counter-productive to discussion and learning.
Because of this, I will not refer to people who say that Jesus died two deaths as heretical. However, if I were permitted, I would certainly do the aforementioned name calling.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
So you would call us heretics?
Why would you do this, with all the evidence that he did die not only spiritually but physically? Thats seems kind of nonsensical.
Because the Bible is clear. It says over and over that he died once. Not twice.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
If Jesus did not die spiritually. Your still dead in your sin.
Jesus said IT IS FINISHED before he died physically. If the penalty of sin was not paid for. Jesus lied.
He could not pay for sin PHYSICALLY. because that was not the penalty of sin. again if it was. everyone who dies physically has paid for their own sin.
Jesus physical death was not payment but for our benefit. He dies as the first fruit to be resurrected. His resurrection also proves that God accepted his payment in full
When you call people a heretic who can not see it YOUR WAY because they see it a different way in scripture. by things which you can not properly answer. then you make yourself look bad.. Just saying
Says who, you?
So? What?
K. But so far you haven't shown that it wasn't paid for by physical death alone.
Says who, you? Zilch scripture cited.
He was dead in the flesh but alive in the spirit!
18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water: 1 Pet 3
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
Says the word of God. The penalty of sin is not physical death. So physical death could not pay our debt for sin
So what? Jesus said it is completed. Paid in full. You want to make jesus a liar?
I have shown it was paid in full as jesus said.. You have on the other hand failed to prove it was not yet paid in full as Jesus said it was.
As for your last comment/ Again, it has been shown..
Jesus did not lie. And physical death is not payment for sin. Again, if it was. Everyone wh died physically paid for his own sin. And christ died in vein/
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
You just proved my point for me
He was made alive at his birth. He would not need to be made alive in the spirit again unless he died in the spirit
Thank you
Says who, you? Are Adam and Eve still alive?
K. I'll buy that.
No. I think you want to make it appear to the casual reader that I'm calling Jesus a liar when nothing could be farther from the truth.
Deceitful tactic on your part.
Only in your imagination. You're countering me with 'sin debt fully paid' when I'm espousing 'Jesus only died once'.
You're off topic.
Again, only in your imagination. You're no exception, many of you Synergists have overactive imaginations.
Never said He did. Again, deceitful tactic on your part.
Again, zilch scripture cited, only your words.
....and it's not 'in vein', it's 'in vain'.
There's that overactive imagination again. Did you not get the gist of the passage? While He was physically dead and in the grave "he went and preached unto the spirits in prison".
READ: NOT SPIRITUALLY DEAD.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
Your all over the place man.
1. is adam and eve still alive? That does not answer the question. Adam lived 900 years after he sinned, Yet he died spiritually the moment he sinned.
We are said to be born dead, yet physically alive.
2. If your saying the penalty of sin was not yet paid in full when jesus said it was. You are calling Jesus a liar. simple as that
3. Your saying Jesus died one. (espousing physical death?) hence you seem saying he did not die spiritually (a second death)
so I am just interpreting you by what you are saying, if I am wrong correct me.
4. I have no idea what a synergist is.. You people and trying to put people under a doctrine or group is a major issue. SPeak to ME and MY WORDS.. not what some imaginary group you place me under says.
Don't sit there and claim I misrepresent you. when you are not even listening to what I say..
Facts are facts my friend
It is finished IS SCRIPTURE.
so you LIED by saying I have ZERO scripture.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
lol
Of course he was not spiritually dead then, When he said "it is finished" he had already been restored. the payment of sin was completed. hence he was MADE ALIVE IN THE SPIRIT
Again stop trying to put me in some group and sit and listen toi what I say. if yu have a question ask it DON'T ASSUME!!!
Funny how you left out the words MADE ALIVE IN THE SPIRIT.
He could not be MADE ALIVE unless he was dead!! so again YOU PROVED MY POINT FOR ME!
All that hoop-lah and not one iota of scripture.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
In adam all die
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
once again,
Your a liar.
If you can not recognize scripture.. You have nothing to offer me my friend.. Now your just attacking and failing to prove your point.most likely because you can not counter what I have said.
There you are. Didn't take long.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
what for stating the facts?
You think you can LIE about what someone did or did not do. then get away with it?
dude man up. If your caught in a lie. own it.. confess it and move on.
Utterly bogus viewpoint!
Without the shedding of blood - a reference to physical death, not spiritual death, there is no forgiveness of sin.
Since Jesus still had His Spirit, God had not left Him.
No need to describe the scope of "it is finished" to include Christ's death, when He had not died yet. And btw, if God had departed, who was Christ talking to when He said "why have you forsaken Me? Did Jesus not know God was gone, or was Jesus right and God was not gone.
Ditto for commending His Spirit to God must mean God was available to receive His Spirit. Thus the supposed wall of separation was not present.
Jesus died ONCE for all, not twice.
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