Robert Snow
New Member
Why do we blame God? In the book of Job, Satan was the one who brought the natural disasters that destroyed much of what Job had.
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Did God cause the earthquake in Haiti?
- Thread starter Jarthur001
- Start date
That's what I've been saying. And if I remember correctly, when God judged Sodom and Gemmorah, He removed the righteous before He destroyed the cities. When He sent the flood as judgment, He protected Noah and his family. When He judged Egypt, He protected the Hebrews. So it seems that when God pronounces judgment, He protects those that are His. But in the case of Haiti, I know there were Christians there who died. Maybe it was a punishment, but I don't think it was judgment.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Job certainly blamed God:
Job 1 says:
20 Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. 21 And he said, “Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”
22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.
According to Job, it is God who has taken away. The portrayal is that God is the active agent, not passive.
Job 2 says:
...Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil [or disaster]? In all this Job did not sin with his lips.
According to this the evil or disaster came from God Himself. Again the portrayal is God is actively afflicting Job.
And, the inspired writer of the book says in Job's assigning blame to God alone that Job "did not sin with his lips or charge God with wrong."
Was Satan involved in the disaster? Sure. But, as Luther said, Satan is God's devil. In other words, he is leased and can only do that which is permitted.
So the answer to the question of who caused the calamity in Job's life is simply this: God.
Blessings,
The Archangel
(Portions reposted from here)
Robert Snow
New Member
I don't think Job blamed God because the bible says that in all he endured Job didn't curse God and maintained his integrity. However, it is certain that God allowed Satan to do what he did.
I believe we live in a fallen world, and things both good and bad happen. I recently had a motorcycle accident where I broke eight ribs, puncured my lung, and broke my shoulder. I don't think God did it. I believe I am the one responsible.
Yes. So?
Yes. Not just all natural disasters, but unrighteous acts of men as well.
That if there were no sin, we'd all be living in Eden.
No. God chooses the death for His saints that gives Him the most glory.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Well, "blamed" is perhaps the wrong word and I should have been more careful.
Job certainly attributed all the disaster to God but in doing so he didn't curse God. The author of Job clearly states that Job attributed the disaster (or evil) to God and in doing so he "did not sin...and did not charge God with wrong."
The only way this works and is not sinful is if God is the One behind the disaster. Clearly, Job's attribution is right and clearly God is the one doing the afflicting.
Blessings,
The Archangel
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Marcia,
The passage is making a comparison between the "sinners" killed in the two disasters and the ones Jesus is speaking to.
In that day, such as ours, many thought that a tremendous disaster (like Pilate mingling human blood with the blood of sacrifices or a tower falling on worshipers) was the result of these persons being "worse" sinners and, therefore, getting what they deserve.
Remember, the Pharisees and Sadducees were, in a manner of speaking, very similar to the health-and-wealth preachers of our day. One of the disastrous consequences of that false gospel is that our blessings are based, first, on what we do and our curses are based on what we do.
Jesus' point is that the people killed in the disasters were every bit a sinner as those He was addressing. Therefore, it is improper to ask if they were worse sinners. Jesus tells them that the events should serve as a warning to all to repent or likewise perish.
So, applying this to Haiti, the question is not what did they do to deserve the quake. Rather, the question is why didn't the whole earth shake and why were there any survivors--since we are all sinners.
Blessings,
The Archangel
Jarthur001
Active Member
Wiki..
So i think we can say that God can be praised because of the earthquake.
No?
peace...James
Marcia
Active Member
Yes, I see your point. But I don't think we know why God allowed an earthquake in Haiti or anywhere else. If you say it's a judgment on sin (as Aaron does), then if your child dies in a car accident, is that a judgment on sin?
If your spouse dies of a heart attack, is that a judgment on sin?
If a busload of Christian teens going to a camp get killed, is that a judgment on sin?
Marcia
Active Member
f you say it's a judgment on sin, then if your child dies in a car accident, is that a judgment on sin?
If your spouse dies of a heart attack, is that a judgment on sin?
If a busload of Christian teens going to a camp get killed, is that a judgment on sin?
(I realize that death is the result of sin, that's not what I'm asking)
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Oh, I think you're exactly right. I don't know, and neither does Pat Robertson, for that matter, why that earthquake hit Haiti. God does and He has His own sovereign purposes.
As for Haiti and these other questions, these things do happen because we live in a fallen, sinful world. Do these things happen because of specific sins? Probably not. It is the fallen condition we and our universe are in--groaning under the weight of sin awaiting the final sanctification of everything.
Blessings,
The Archangel
True, but it's important to note that no affliction is random.
Those who have not yet suffered such things have every need to be more humble and more grateful for the mercy they've been shown.
I don't think you do.
Marcia
Active Member
You must be kidding. I argued this on another thread about death being the result of sin. Why are you saying false things about me?
brucebaptist
New Member
God gets the glory for all. He is sovereign. our puny brains cant understand why such an earthquake was necessary? but it was. was sodom and gomorroh necessary? yes. katrina? yes... God should get glory no matter what happens in this world and not be questioned. it will be revealed to us when we come into glory ourselves...
the religion(s) of haiti are totally satanic. voodoo and catholicism mixed... rotten to the core and straight from the pit of helll. you cant sell your soul to the devil and expect much good to happen. rock and roll stars sell their souls to the devil and most end up dead by 40 years old... john lennon said the beatles were more popular than Jesus... so he got whacked... God is sovereign.
the religion(s) of haiti are totally satanic. voodoo and catholicism mixed... rotten to the core and straight from the pit of helll. you cant sell your soul to the devil and expect much good to happen. rock and roll stars sell their souls to the devil and most end up dead by 40 years old... john lennon said the beatles were more popular than Jesus... so he got whacked... God is sovereign.
convicted1
Guest
I know this thread has been dormant for over a year now, and this "poster" may not post on here anymore, but I want to address two things he stated.
Ezek. 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
You can't sell, what you don't own.....so N
NE can sell their soul to Satan.
Ezek. 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
You can't sell, what you don't own.....so N
NE can sell their soul to Satan.Why is it easier for you to say that he allowed it than that he caused it?
The Bible is very clear- God DOES these things.
But you try to exonerate God by saying he does not DO these things but it does not exonerate him in the least. If he can stop it and doesn't he is JUST as culpable as if he shook the earth himself and killed those people.
The FACT of the matter is that ALL power is God's power and NOTHING happens EVER without it.
The energy it takes to move the earth is GOD'S. He does it.
But on top of that, God's Word, which ought to be your guide in these matters CLEARLY says that he does these things.
But you cannot produce a single passage of Scripture to support the idea that he ONLY allows it. Not one.
What does that tell you about your way of thinking?
It is not guided by Scripture- it is guided by your own desires.
Life is fragile and full of trouble...
However, everything is according to His ultimate purpose after the counsel of His own will.
There is a question from the word of God concerning our pilgrimage here on earth especially in light of the coming greatest and final conflagration:
2 Peter 3
Job 14:1 Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.
However, everything is according to His ultimate purpose after the counsel of His own will.
There is a question from the word of God concerning our pilgrimage here on earth especially in light of the coming greatest and final conflagration:
2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
In the meantime we can exercise our NT priesthood to pray for and to give to those in their time of need.
HankD
What does that tell you about your way of thinking?
No, the question is what does it say about your way of thinking which is clouded by a fatalistic viewpoint. I see the same scriptures, read them, but I don't interpret them through the same lens that you are using. Therefore I, and others come to a different conclusion. We see a God who can be just as in control and yet not be the direct cause of an earthquake in Hatti or in Japan. Could He have caused one? Yes, He can. Did He in these cases? I'll wait and let God tell us the answer if and when He is ready. In the mean time I'll stick with the fact that the tectonic plates shifted as they have been doing for thousands of years and will continue to do so until the end of time. Does that make God any less sovereign because I don't agree with you? I don't think so but you are welcome to disagree which I am sure you will. Does that make me any less a Christian than you or any less useful to God. I don't think so, but if you want to remain in your delusion of gander then that's your problem.
No, the question is what does it say about your way of thinking which is clouded by a fatalistic viewpoint. I see the same scriptures, read them, but I don't interpret them through the same lens that you are using. Therefore I, and others come to a different conclusion. We see a God who can be just as in control and yet not be the direct cause of an earthquake in Hatti or in Japan. Could He have caused one? Yes, He can. Did He in these cases? I'll wait and let God tell us the answer if and when He is ready. In the mean time I'll stick with the fact that the tectonic plates shifted as they have been doing for thousands of years and will continue to do so until the end of time. Does that make God any less sovereign because I don't agree with you? I don't think so but you are welcome to disagree which I am sure you will. Does that make me any less a Christian than you or any less useful to God. I don't think so, but if you want to remain in your delusion of gander then that's your problem.
I know this will sound simplistic, but when I can't explain things (especially in my own life) and am grieved, this verse always comes to my mind.
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return there: the LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
I have to remind myself that God is good no matter what happens and that He is God and I'm not.
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return there: the LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
I have to remind myself that God is good no matter what happens and that He is God and I'm not.