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Did Jesus die for the sin of unbelief?

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Marooncat79

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One of the most direct statement Jesus made concerning His ministry and death (purpose)

In Mark 10:45 Jesus says that He “came not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give His life a ransom for many (not everyone)”.
 
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1689Dave

1689Dave

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If Christ paid for all sins except the sin of unbelief, he didn't pay for any sin. Because all sin stems from unbelief. Whatever is not of faith is sin. This of course proves limited atonement logically. Scripture proves it as written.
 
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Barry Johnson

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1689Dave said:
If Christ paid for all sins except the sin of unbelief, he didn't pay for any sin. Because all sin stems from unbelief. Whatever is not of faith is sin. This of course proves limited atonement logically. Scripture proves it as written.
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why does that prove ' limited atonement ' ?
 
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Barry Johnson

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1689Dave said:
Only a few are saved meaning he paid for their sins. Universal Atonement doesn't pay for any sin meaning all remain damned.
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Why doesn't the verses that say Jesus died for the world mean that he died for the sins of the world ? And why would you think that because Jesus did this that this means everyone should be saved ? how did you arrive at that conclusion?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
Why doesn't the verses that say Jesus died for the world mean that he died for the sins of the world ? And why would you think that because Jesus did this that this means everyone should be saved ? how did you arrive at that conclusion?
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Salvation was only of the Jews. But in the promise to Abraham, it now goes to the whole world. Not each and every person just as it missed most people in its limited Jewish sense.
 
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Barry Johnson

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1689Dave said:
Salvation was only of the Jews. But in the promise to Abraham, it now goes to the whole world. Not each and every person just as it missed most people in its limited Jewish sense.
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But were talking about Jesus paying for the entire cosmos. Its not limited in any sense. He redeemed the entire creation . He died for all literally . No one was missed.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

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Barry Johnson said:
But were talking about Jesus paying for the entire cosmos. Its not limited in any sense. He redeemed the entire creation . He died for all literally . No one was missed.
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The whole world will be saved in the New Heavens and earth. But this present evil world and the wicked he will destroy.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

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Barry Johnson said:
That makes no sense? could you maybe change the wording?
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There are two worlds (ages) spoken of in scripture. This present evil world that will be dissolved by fire on the last day. And the world to come which is the new heavens and earth where sin and death do not exist. This saving of the world already began with the salvation of the people who will populate it, believers in Christ. It will be a saved world where all Israel (believers in Christ) will be saved.
 
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Barry Johnson

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1689Dave said:
There are two worlds (ages) spoken of in scripture. This present evil world that will be dissolved by fire on the last day. And the world to come which is the new heavens and earth where sin and death do not exist. This saving of the world already began with the salvation of the people who will populate it, believers in Christ. It will be a saved world where all Israel (believers in Christ) will be saved.
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I think I may only disagree with the Israel part. Not sure why you said all Israel are believers in Christ ?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

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Barry Johnson said:
I think I may only disagree with the Israel part. Not sure why you said all Israel are believers in Christ ?
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OT Israel was wicked beyond belief. They were not saved. God gave them the law under threat of death to act good, because they were not. But always a few born-again believers were among them. Jesus removed all the unbelievers when he abolished circumcision on the cross. Leaving only believers under his kingship. He then grafted believing gentiles into Israel, made up of believers only. So we are Israel, and not the broken off unbelievers, even though they hijacked the name.
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
OT Israel was wicked beyond belief. They were not saved. God gave them the law under threat of death to act good, because they were not. But always a few born-again believers were among them. Jesus removed all the unbelievers when he abolished circumcision on the cross. Leaving only believers under his kingship. He then grafted believing gentiles into Israel, made up of believers only. So we are Israel, and not the broken off unbelievers, even though they hijacked the name.
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replacement theology ? Ok Israel messed up but not beyond recovery . Too many verses to state here . No one was ' born again in the OT that only happens after the resurrection. We are not Israel as Romans 11 clearly shows we are ' grafted ' in and only because of their temporary unbelief .
 
Sai

Sai

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
OT Israel was wicked beyond belief. They were not saved. God gave them the law under threat of death to act good, because they were not. But always a few born-again believers were among them. Jesus removed all the unbelievers when he abolished circumcision on the cross. Leaving only believers under his kingship. He then grafted believing gentiles into Israel, made up of believers only. So we are Israel, and not the broken off unbelievers, even though they hijacked the name.
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During which time there were virtually literally no saved Gentiles. Don’t get it twisted
 
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