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Did Jesus die for the sin of unbelief?

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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Explain your point, I don't get it.
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if you say col 2 is not applicable to every human then your commiting the negative inference fallacy .
All Biblical proof-texts that Calvinists use to provide evidence for the doctrine of limited atonement suffer from an objective logical fallacy informally known as the 'negative inference fallacy.' A simple example of such a fallacious argument is:

John loves his friends.

Therefore, John does not love his enemies.
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Because all have not faith. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit from whence faith comes. God must save people before they can believe.
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Now your engaging in syllogism. This is the structure on which Augustine began and why you believe what you believe today . Its starts with T and like a cascade because of the T ( in TULIP ) Everything now is committed to the cascade system downwards. How does one believe if T is true ? oh well its the U . But why don't all believe ? oh well its L . But what if some don't want to ? oh well I . Oh ok how do they know if they are U ? oh well because of P .
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
if you say col 2 is not applicable to every human then your commiting the negative inference fallacy .
All Biblical proof-texts that Calvinists use to provide evidence for the doctrine of limited atonement suffer from an objective logical fallacy informally known as the 'negative inference fallacy.' A simple example of such a fallacious argument is:

John loves his friends.

Therefore, John does not love his enemies.
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Jesus did not die for the Pharisees in John 10. This is why they did not believe. How could they be included in those Paul spoke of in your "proof texts"?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
Now your engaging in syllogism. This is the structure on which Augustine began and why you believe what you believe today . Its starts with T and like a cascade because of the T ( in TULIP ) Everything now is committed to the cascade system downwards. How does one believe if T is true ? oh well its the U . But why don't all believe ? oh well its L . But what if some don't want to ? oh well I . Oh ok how do they know if they are U ? oh well because of P .
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You are avoiding scripture trying to make a case. You need to use scripture to prove your point.
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
You are avoiding scripture trying to make a case. You need to use scripture to prove your point.
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Well no scripture what's so ever says sinners can't positively respond to the Gospel so really Augustines philosophy should never really have gotten off the ground .
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
Well no scripture what's so ever says sinners can't positively respond to the Gospel so really Augustines philosophy should never really have gotten off the ground .
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“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (NCPB)

Find free will in this mess.
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (NCPB)

Find free will in this mess.
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Yes sinners , unless saved cannot go to heaven . Thats christianity 101
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (NCPB)

Find free will in this mess.
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I hear Calvinsts using post hock rationalization when it comes to their testimony . No one starts off a calvinist . Their testimony starts off ' yeah i heard the Gospel I believed and was saved . to later after being exposed to some reformed teachings ( before they read there bibles deeply ) changes to " oh I didn't even want to believe , then I fell out of bed a believer "
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Where's faith in this mess?
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Well their faith is in the wrong things . Thats the point . People have faith in Alah , the pope , Mary , Donald trump , themselves but the moment they place this same faith on Jesus they will be saved
. Describing sin and sinners is not saying they cannot respond positively to the Gospel when heard . An alcoholic can realise his problem so can a sinner when he hears the Gospel .
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
I hear Calvinsts using post hock rationalization when it comes to their testimony . No one starts off a calvinist . Their testimony starts off ' yeah i heard the Gospel I believed and was saved . to later after being exposed to some reformed teachings ( before they read there bibles deeply ) changes to " oh I didn't even want to believe , then I fell out of bed a believer "
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Again, no scripture supports you. Find faith coming from the flesh and you win. But it's not there. Only idol worship.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
Well their faith is in the wrong things . Thats the point . People have faith in Alah , the pope , Mary , Donald trump , themselves but the moment they place this same faith on Jesus they will be saved
. Describing sin and sinners is not saying they cannot respond positively to the Gospel when heard . An alcoholic can realise his problem so can a sinner when he hears the Gospel .
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Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (NCPB)
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (NCPB)
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lol Galations is about the FRUIT OF the spirit not salvation .Patience is there also . Do unbelievers not have that ?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
lol Galations is about the FRUIT OF the spirit not salvation .
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Having the Holy Spirit = salvation.
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” Romans 8:9 (NCPB)
 
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