1689Dave
Well-Known Member
We are Israel and unbelievers from defrocked ethnic Israel (so called) will be reattached only through faith in Christ. (Rom 11ff)
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Did we miss our turn somewhere?
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So what? Did the Germans just murder defrocked ethnic Israel so called, to use your words? Are you conceding that Israel as a nation had to reappear before the end of the world?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)
Miller Road Baptist Church, Garland, Texas
First Baptist Church, Hammond, Indiana
Highland Park Baptist Church, Chattanooga, Tennessee
The first once had four out of five families living in Garland as members. It no longer exists.
The second is still shackled with sin, and has yet to publicly repent and restore.
The third lost their first love as well as vision. Moved to attempt to stabilize.and continues to struggle.
Shall I post more?
You have yet to post one that doesn’t have a condition found in the seven mentioned.
There is none.
The Lord ask a rhetorical question, “When I return, shall I find faith on this earth?”
Of course he will not.
It is the same as “this is the beginning of sorrows (tribulation)” (Matthew 24) is not an indication of sorrows ceasing.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Any Nicolaitans there? How about looming persecution. Any having tribulation 10 days? etc., etc.
Dave, try not to remove a verse from context and appoint it to a nation.
ALL unbelievers have the “wrath of God abiding on them.”
To a high Calvinist, this is one reason they also are limiting the atonement blood to only believers.
I don’t subscribe to such thinking, because neither do I find such in Calvin’s teaching or writing.
I hold, blood for all so reconciliation may be rightly preached to all, but the death and resurrection benefit only believers as Paul also preached. (And, best I can discern at this time, so did Calvin - though it wasn’t the hot button issue some make it in this day)
Continued growth and understanding is a must for all believers.
But more contemporary accounts would include the persecution within the modern church toward members who desire to live peculiarity separated from the worldliness of the common fleshly oriented worship. They are scoffed, publicly rebuked, shunned, belittled, prevented from teaching, ...
It is not physical harm that their children may face, but ostracized and scorn when even in the Christian school’s the child dares to present a totally devoted life.
Look upon believers of the modern persecuted church.
Satan may not attack each assembly with the same persecution, some may not resist with blood as many must in what is commonly called the persecuted church, but many assemblies may still have bloodied by the bruising of both the flesh and emotions because off the ungodly within and without.
Your difficulty seems to run along the lines of limiting to “ten days” rather than seeing the principle being taught of the assembly being aggressively fervent in devotion and service.
God certainly appointed a limit to the great tribulation. Do you see that reason He gave for the limiting?
Did not God warn the Jerusalem believers?
Did not God warn the most prominent of Asian churches?
By extension, does not God warn all assemblies?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
“[ the Jews] Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost [the end].” 1 Thessalonians 2:16 (KJV 1900)
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
If it was addressed to the 7 Churches in Asia, are you adding to Revelation to say it applies to all churches?
Trouble when you quote something out of context:
13And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men. but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers. 14For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, 15who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind 16by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved—so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them at last!
Surely you don’t expect folks to read into this passage that there are no more Jews.
Such is contrary to the teaching of Romans.
1I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— 2that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. 4They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
A bit later the writer states (still discussing the issues of Jewish salvation in comparison and contrast to Gentile salvation):
1I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,a a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? 3“Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
...25Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:d a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may nowereceive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
This is not the first time I directed you to these passages. “The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may nowereceive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
Yet, would you cling to your posted thinking?
Does not the Scripture state, “16All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of Godbmay be complete, equipped for every good work.”
I don’t add, but neither do I limit what is not appropriate and indicated as limited.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
"Why is it most still look for the visions of Revelation to be fulfilled in the distant future? When Jesus said they would soon come to pass - nearly 2000 years ago?"
That is Satan, Dave.
Others look at the same visions as already having been fulfilled.
Both are purely Satanic.
Satan says,"These major portions of God's Word mean nothing to you and are to be ignored".
It's that simple.
Revelation is the Most Practical a book in the Bible, as God Said, "Blessed are those who read"...
Every word pertains to us, now, and my be seen that way, easily, just like any other portion of The Bible.
With The Holy Spirit.
Revelation begins with the discussion of Spiritual Warfare Revealed as taking place on Earth and then that Warfare in The Spirit Realm.
Revelation covers the Time Period between the Ascention of Jesus, until The End of The World at His Return.
As we have talked about, each of The Seven VISIONS cover this exact same Time Period, generally speaking.
Each of The Seven VISIONS begin with Jesus First Advent and End with His Second Advent.
In Each Vision God Reinerates the same Period, in more depth and detail.
Sorry, for those that Satan wanted to blind to his Doom taking Place, soon, upon Jesus Return, soon, at The End of The World, soon, because he, sure as daylight, has.
There will be no more opportunity for anyone to be Saved and most all of the World of people that are Saved do not know to tell that Message to all the lost WHO DO NOT Know and most all 'Bible Teachers' tell one of Satan's versions AND NOT GOD'S.
They know they don't know the first thing about Revelation, because it never involves Prayer, or actual Interpretations that HARMONIZE PERFECTLY WITH THE REST OF THE BIBLE.
People always quote Satan with the, "there are 4 basics ways folks "interpret Revelation", and it is guaranteed that 3 are Satanic, Sold to them by Satan himself and, if it anything like 'Church Truth' they are oblivious to the 4th, and can't teach a nickels worth of Revelation, and really NONE, at all.
And the hard part is, they wouldn't bow to God and give their understanding of it Him, if the 'appointment they think they'll have to rule as Governor of their State' is a stake.
Wait a second.
Satan had to fool them by buying them off, somehow.
It can't just be that SATAN tells them, "you don't have to preach the gospel this way, or tell anyone they or someone they know will be lost and a goat Separated from the sheep when Jesus Comes, because there is 'second chance'.
So, they buy his lies to 'be Govener(?)
How proud.
And Satan-worship-ish.
THE DRAGON THEY DON' T KNOW TO FIGHT.
Look at The Country's and World Economic and Go-Political News.
Do you see The Word of God Put Out to War Against Satan?
It's because we have no teachers to tell anyone THE BIBLE.
WE HAVE 'EAR TICKLERS', With Disney World Carton silly Satanism.
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Jesus Saves!
Active Member
Here’s a biblical definition of a Jew.
Romans 2:28-29 KJV
[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
[6] Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Romans 2:28-29 KJV
[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
[6] Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
I am a Spiritual Jew.
That's for sure.
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
...
"They are not all Israel that are of Israel."
"They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:"
...
All Israel will be Saved.
"the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
So Satan does not know?
prophecy70
Active Member
does it?
Well, I was really just asking my good friend if these bones can live? (Ezekiel 37)
What has Satan been doing these last 6000 years?
unprofitable
Active Member
Interesting points. When has satan been bound, literally or figuratively, for 1000 years? He certainly is active today and persecuting the body of Christ. Matter of fact, that is what he has always done.
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1689Dave
Well-Known Member
I don't think you understand my point. God placed the unbelieving Jews under his wrath until the end of the world. History bears this out too. But any having faith in Christ he will reattach to Biblical Israel, aka the Church.
Excuse me for jumping in but what is your Scripture for this point that Jews are under God's wrath until the end of the world? Are you talking about Israelis?
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