Different interpretations based on different interpretations.... lol

[Cathode]

@Cathode,

How do you understand the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, "none is good, save one, that is, God."? [Luke 18:19]

Do you see the context mate. Obviously there are good people, but their goodness is not their own, is the meaning.

They are not good of themselves, only God is Good of Himself. All Goodness comes from God.

So really it’s not a proof text that Mary was a sinner.

Mary had the indwelling of The Holy Spirit from her Conception, The Holy Spirit protected her from Original sin and all personal sin, so that she could conceive of her sinless flesh, the Son God.

Jesus was not “ implanted “ as a completely foreign alien being, otherwise he would not be in anyway human. Jesus received His humanity by being conceived of Mary’s sinless flesh, by the power of The Holy Spirit.

“ The Almighty has done great things for me “

“ I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed “

Adam and Eve became the seed of Satan by their sin and fall. Mary’s seed was Jesus, and it was her seed, since she knew no man.

Mary’s sinlessness made her an enemy of Satan, because from her could be conceived the sinless Saviour, she was under the Dominion of The Holy Spirit, not Satan.
In sin did David’s mother conceive him, but not so with Jesus, Jesus was not conceived of a sinful mother. Jesus was conceived of an Immaculate Mother, and He Himself was Immaculate and unblemished.
He was like us in every way, but without sin.

 

[37818]

Do you see the context mate. Obviously there are good people, but their goodness is not their own, is the meaning.

They are not good of themselves, only God is Good of Himself. All Goodness comes from God.

So really it’s not a proof text that Mary was a sinner.

Mary had the indwelling of The Holy Spirit from her Conception, The Holy Spirit protected her from Original sin and all personal sin, so that she could conceive of her sinless flesh, the Son God.

Jesus was not “ implanted “ as a completely foreign alien being, otherwise he would not be in anyway human. Jesus received His humanity by being conceived of Mary’s sinless flesh, by the power of The Holy Spirit.

“ The Almighty has done great things for me “

“ I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed “

Adam and Eve became the seed of Satan by their sin and fall. Mary’s seed was Jesus, and it was her seed, since she knew no man.

Mary’s sinlessness made her an enemy of Satan, because from her could be conceived the sinless Saviour, she was under the Dominion of The Holy Spirit, not Satan.
In sin did David’s mother conceive him, but not so with Jesus, Jesus was not conceived of a sinful mother. Jesus was conceived of an Immaculate Mother, and He Himself was Immaculate and unblemished.
He was like us in every way, but without sin.

My next question, do you understand how we disagree on the meaning of Jesus' words, "none is good, save one, that is, God."?

 

[Cathode]

My next question, do you understand how we disagree on the meaning of Jesus' words, "none is good, save one, that is, God."?

The rich young man was trying to be good by human effort, not Grace.

That’s why the disciples were shocked when told that it was harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom, than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.

“When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

I remember a sermon on this very thing.

To be good according to the Law required an entourage and pit crews of help, which required wealth.

That’s why the disciples were astonished, because the wealthy could afford to be kept ritually clean under the Law. But even then they fail.

“With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

God by His Grace and power make it possible to be good, and without wealth.

There is a huge gulf between man’s efforts and Jesus works in us by Grace.

We aren’t good, God is Good and the source of all Good.

What do you disagree with here?

 

[Cathode]

So Mary was sinless, so she could conceive Jesus sinlessly.

God by His Grace and Power, did this for Mary.

“ The Almighty has done great things for me “

 

[Cathode]

The Ark of The Covenant was the prefigurement of Mary. It was a sacred vessel containing the Presence of God, so God could be with His people.

The Ark had to be completely pure so that it could contain the Holy Presence of God. Mary had to be completely pure so that she could conceive Jesus from her sinless flesh, by the power of The Holy Spirit.
The Shekinah Glory overshadowed the Ark, The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary.

Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant containing the Presence of God, Jesus, God with us.

 

[Cathode]

Catholics are very defensive of Mary, because we see her as our Mother, our Queen, and The Ark of the New Covenant.
It’s only because of Jesus that she has this status.

 

[Silverhair]

The Ark of The Covenant was the prefigurement of Mary. It was a sacred vessel containing the Presence of God, so God could be with His people.

The Ark had to be completely pure so that it could contain the Holy Presence of God. Mary had to be completely pure so that she could conceive Jesus from her sinless flesh, by the power of The Holy Spirit.
The Shekinah Glory overshadowed the Ark, The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary.

Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant containing the Presence of God, Jesus, God with us.

@Cathode please show me from the text of scripture where mary was sinless. To say that the Ark of The Covenant prefigures mary is ludicrous. You have accused non RCC of private interpretation and ridicule them for it. But look at the many non-biblical things that you believe and this because the RCC has told you they are true.

You parrot what some fallible priest has told you but you will not trust the actual word of God that shows you your error.

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Ecc 7:20 Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

If mary was the sinless vessel as you claim then why do we not see this clearly stated in scripture? You are trying to justify a doctrine that your pope brought into the RCC in 1854. This is just one of a long list of anti-biblical doctrines that have been introduced by the RCC.

The more you try to support the RCC the more you show the basis of their error, they have trusted in fallible men that have their own agenda. Trust the author, the Holy Spirit.

We are told to pray to / worship only God and yet how many "saints" do you pray to. Your rosary that I am sure you use has 10 to 1 prayers to mary over to Christ. You are doing just what God has condemned as pagan worship. That is why the RCC changed the bible when it took
Exo 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exo 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Exo 20:5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

The RCC acts as though their authority stands above the Word of God.

 

[Silverhair]

Catholics are very defensive of Mary, because we see her as our Mother, our Queen, and The Ark of the New Covenant.
It’s only because of Jesus that she has this status.

And all these views are from sinful man. You have zero biblical basis for those ideas. Your church has elevated mary and the many other "saints" you pray to to the level of God. We are told to pray / worship God only and you violate this every time you pray your rosary.

 

[Cathode]

And all these views are from sinful man. You have zero biblical basis for those ideas. Your church has elevated mary and the many other "saints" you pray to to the level of God. We are told to pray / worship God only and you violate this every time you pray your rosary.

No. Every Hail Mary we say “ blessed is the fruit of your womb” Jesus ‘, from Elizabeth ‘s Holy Spirit filled Words in Scripture.
Jesus called blessed in every Hail Mary.

Mary and the saints are creatures, God is Uncreated and Eternal, we don’t elevate them to the level God.

 

[Silverhair]

No. Every Hail Mary we say “ blessed is the fruit of your womb” Jesus ‘, from Elizabeth ‘s Holy Spirit filled Words in Scripture.
Jesus called blessed in every Hail Mary.

Mary and the saints are creatures, God is Uncreated and Eternal, we don’t elevate them to the level God.

Then why do you pray to them as they are all just sinful creatures. Only God is without sin and only God is to be prayed to.

As I said before, the more you try to support the RCC the more you show just how unbiblical their ideas are.

You have just admitted that you pray to mary and it is well known that catholics pray to the many statues of "saints" as if they can hear and help them. You even go to a priest to ask for blessing and forgiveness of sins. Why use a fallen sinful man when you can go directly to God, Christ Jesus.

God through His sacrifice at the cross removed the barrier between Him and man. The RCC has tried to replace that barrier and has gone so far as to say that they are the only means of salvation. You have believed the false teaching of the RCC and compound the error when you deny the truth that is pointed out to you.

 

[Cathode]

@Cathode please show me from the text of scripture where mary was sinless.

“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.”

“Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

Jesus wasn’t shapen in iniquity, He was not conceived by a sinful mother.

Jesus could not be conceived of sinful flesh.

Mary was saved from original and personal sin from her conception, so that she could conceive Jesus in her womb.

Jesus was like us in all ways, conceived of a mother, born of a mother, but He was without sin. Jesus took his humanity from Mary’s sinless flesh.

To say that the Ark of The Covenant prefigures mary is ludicrous. You have accused non RCC of private interpretation and ridicule them for it. But look at the many non-biblical things that you believe and this because the RCC has told you they are true.

The Apostolic understanding of scripture is profound, very deep. It’s not the changeable opinion of the private interpreters, and I mean no disrespect saying that.

I fear talking about this for others sake.

I say this out of brotherly love, for people not to detract from Mary. Hold off on your position regarding Mary, I’m understanding now what you guys believe, but hold off hard judgment against her.
Mary is more than you understand of her now.

Lord Jesus suffered every outrage of men, but He will not suffer His Holy Mother to be detracted from, I don’t care how saved people think they are. Please don’t do it, I beg you, just in that remote possibility you could be wrong.

The Ark of the Covenant was immaculately constructed under exacting instruction of God to be the dwelling place of His Holy Presence, a Throne on Earth. The Ark was the single holiest object the Israelites ever had.
It was very dangerous to mishandle it, even in ignorance.

Mary is The Ark of the New Covenant, she was made Immaculate by God to be His dwelling place and bear Jesus to His people, God with us. Like the Ark, Mary was unique for a unique purpose.
The Ark had 2 angelic figures over Mercy Seat, Mary’s life was marked by angels, the Angel at The Annunciation and the Angel at the Resurrection.

When God came to dwell with The Ark, the Shekinah Glory overshadowed the Ark.
When the Incarnation of Jesus took place, The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary.

At the great atonement for all Israel, the High Priest sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice on and before The Ark of The Covenant.
At the great atonement for all the world, Christ The High Priest sprinkled His Blood of Sacrifice on and before Mary at the foot of the Cross.

There are many other things to say on this, but very basically, that’s it.

 

[Cathode]

Then why do you pray to them as they are all just sinful creatures. Only God is without sin and only God is to be prayed to.

As I said before, the more you try to support the RCC the more you show just how unbiblical their ideas are.

You have just admitted that you pray to mary and it is well known that catholics pray to the many statues of "saints" as if they can hear and help them. You even go to a priest to ask for blessing and forgiveness of sins. Why use a fallen sinful man when you can go directly to God, Christ Jesus.

God through His sacrifice at the cross removed the barrier between Him and man. The RCC has tried to replace that barrier and has gone so far as to say that they are the only means of salvation. You have believed the false teaching of the RCC and compound the error when you deny the truth that is pointed out to you.

We don’t pray to statues, these are effigies like photos of family members, we pray to Mary and the saints to pray for us. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Silverhair]

“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.”

“Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

Jesus wasn’t shapen in iniquity, He was not conceived by a sinful mother.

Jesus could not be conceived of sinful flesh.

Mary was saved from original and personal sin from her conception, so that she could conceive Jesus in her womb.

Jesus was like us in all ways, conceived of a mother, born of a mother, but He was without sin. Jesus took his humanity from Mary’s sinless flesh.



The Apostolic understanding of scripture is profound, very deep. It’s not the changeable opinion of the private interpreters, and I mean no disrespect saying that.

I fear talking about this for others sake.

I say this out of brotherly love, for people not to detract from Mary. Hold off on your position regarding Mary, I’m understanding now what you guys believe, but hold off hard judgment against her.
Mary is more than you understand of her now.

Lord Jesus suffered every outrage of men, but He will not suffer His Holy Mother to be detracted from, I don’t care how saved people think they are. Please don’t do it, I beg you, just in that remote possibility you could be wrong.

The Ark of the Covenant was immaculately constructed under exacting instruction of God to be the dwelling place of His Holy Presence, a Throne on Earth. The Ark was the single holiest object the Israelites ever had.
It was very dangerous to mishandle it, even in ignorance.

Mary is The Ark of the New Covenant, she was made Immaculate by God to be His dwelling place and bear Jesus to His people, God with us. Like the Ark, Mary was unique for a unique purpose.
The Ark had 2 angelic figures over Mercy Seat, Mary’s life was marked by angels, the Angel at The Annunciation and the Angel at the Resurrection.

When God came to dwell with The Ark, the Shekinah Glory overshadowed the Ark.
When the Incarnation of Jesus took place, The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary.

At the great atonement for all Israel, the High Priest sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice on and before The Ark of The Covenant.
At the great atonement for all the world, Christ The High Priest sprinkled His Blood of Sacrifice on and before Mary at the foot of the Cross.

There are many other things to say on this, but very basically, that’s it.

@Cathode you have just given us man's opinion which you keep saying is not valid. The bible does not call mary sinless and actually when we see that Jesus did not accord her any special place of honor.

Mat 12:46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said to Him, "Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You."
Mat 12:48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?"
Mat 12:49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers!
Mat 12:50 "For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."

Mary is special in that she bore the Christ child but she was a sinful individual that was used of God to further His plan of redemption. The same as He has use other sinful individuals to do the same. You and the RCC error when you elevate her to the status of being without sin you call her Holy, Queen of heaven, Immaculate. These are just some of the errors found in the RCC.

You have accepted the lies that the RCC have told you. Why do you trust what a failed man-made institution tells you rather than what the Holt Spirit has told us through the written word.
The way you come across it would seem you think no one but your priests can actually read and understand English or for that matter Greek or Hebrew.

Have you ever and do you now actually study the bible for yourself? If you do do you not trust your own intelligence to be able to comprehend what the text says? It seems I give you more credit for intelligence than you do yourself.

 

[Silverhair]

We don’t pray to statues, these are effigies like photos of family members, we pray to Mary and the saints to pray for us. Nothing wrong with that.

Why do you ask dead sinners to pray for you? Why not pray to the one that can actually help you, Christ Jesus.

You just admitted that you have violated God's command. And you say "Nothing wrong with that."
You are praying to statues and asking them to help you. That is pagan worship that is idolatry, which we are told to flee.

Prayer is only to be offered to God as He is the only one that can help or forgive us.
1Jn 2:1 ... And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

 

[Cathode]

@Cathode you have just given us man's opinion which you keep saying is not valid. The bible does not call mary sinless and actually when we see that Jesus did not accord her any special place of honor.

Mat 12:46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said to Him, "Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You."
Mat 12:48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?"
Mat 12:49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers!
Mat 12:50 "For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."

Mary is special in that she bore the Christ child but she was a sinful individual that was used of God to further His plan of redemption. The same as He has use other sinful individuals to do the same. You and the RCC error when you elevate her to the status of being without sin you call her Holy, Queen of heaven, Immaculate. These are just some of the errors found in the RCC.

You have accepted the lies that the RCC have told you. Why do you trust what a failed man-made institution tells you rather than what the Holt Spirit has told us through the written word.
The way you come across it would seem you think no one but your priests can actually read and understand English or for that matter Greek or Hebrew.

Have you ever and do you now actually study the bible for yourself? If you do do you not trust your own intelligence to be able to comprehend what the text says? It seems I give you more credit for intelligence than you do yourself.

It’s not a question of intelligence, but wisdom.

Intelligence can be far more dangerous than ignorance, as pride the most hidden and stealthy sin of all does it’s work. Plenty of highly intelligent people have twisted scripture to their destruction.
Best way to win is not play the devils game in the first place. Don’t start privately interpreting scripture yourself or follow any of the other private interpreters doctrines. Then there is no chance of you twisting scripture to your destruction.

Wisdom is adherence to the Truth and that is in the Tradition of The Holy Spirit, Apostolic Tradition, the 2000 year old original understanding of Scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

It’s not a question of intelligence, but wisdom.

Intelligence can be far more dangerous than ignorance, as pride the most hidden and stealthy sin of all does it’s work. Plenty of highly intelligent people have twisted scripture to their destruction.
Best way to win is not play the devils game in the first place. Don’t start privately interpreting scripture yourself or follow any of the other private interpreters doctrines. Then there is no chance of you twisting scripture to your destruction.

Wisdom is adherence to the Truth and that is in the Tradition of The Holy Spirit, Apostolic Tradition, the 2000 year old original understanding of Scripture.

I agree you should not allow some private interpretation of scripture control you. So again I ask why do you allow the private interpretation of the RCC to control you. Wisdom is adherence to the truth found in scripture as inspired by the Holy Spirit not in adherence to what a flawed man-made institution, RCC, tells you to believe.

The errors of the RCC have been pointed out to you but you refuse to even address them. That is just blind allegiance.

What you have done is place your trust in a group of men to tell you what to believe. You have hitched your wagon to a falling star.

I do find it amazing that you continue to say you are not capable of reading and understanding scripture.

You hold to what the RCC tells you to believe and I will hold to what the bible tells me.

2Ti 3:14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
2Ti 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Oseas3]

So Mary was sinless, so she could conceive Jesus sinlessly.
God by His Grace and Power, did this for Mary.
“ The Almighty has done great things for me “

Even Satan says this, and is saying this, GOD is Omnipotent and the spirit of the Devil cannot deny what GOD has done.

 

[Oseas3]

No. Every Hail Mary we say “ blessed is the fruit of your womb” Jesus ‘, from Elizabeth ‘s Holy Spirit filled Words in Scripture.
Jesus called blessed in every Hail Mary.

Mary and the saints are creatures, God is Uncreated and Eternal, we don’t elevate them to the level God.

The testimony of the Devil is good for nothing He and his idolaters followers will be cast into the lake of fire, FIRST his followers, in the END of this seventh and last millennium-Revelation 20:10. FOR NOW Satan, the red Dragon-Revelation 12:9, will be cast into the bottomless pit, that he should deceive the nations no more.

GO DOWN TO THE ABYSS SATAN. GO DOWN TO THE ABYSS, SPIRIT OF DEVIL

 

[Oseas3]

Catholics are very defensive of Mary, because we see her as our Mother, our Queen, and The Ark of the New Covenant.
It’s only because of Jesus that she has this status.

Because of the satanic idolatry of the Roman Catholic Church, which rides upon the Beast of sea (sea= waters= waters are peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues(peoples of Europe, and Asia, and Africa, and Oceania(Australia, and North America, Central America and South America-SEVEN HEADS of THE BEAST)-Revelation 17:15, and from now on they will be punished with severe plagues.

Revelation 9:13-21: -->
13 And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before GOD,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates(Genesis 2:14-17).

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Daniel 12:10-13
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

The election of the last Pope - Will be his religious nickname Paulus VII? | Pure Bible Forum (and see www.sinaiticus.net )

 

[Cathode]

I agree you should not allow some private interpretation of scripture control you. So again I ask why do you allow the private interpretation of the RCC to control you.

The Catholic Church doesn’t privately interpret scripture, it publicly interprets the public revelation of Scripture.
It is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that preserved the scriptures from the Apostles, authenticated them and determined the Canon itself. No one else did that, the Bible is a Catholic book, so I leave it to the Catholic Church to tell me what it means.

Wisdom is adherence to the truth found in scripture as inspired by the Holy Spirit not in adherence to what a flawed man-made institution, RCC, tells you to believe.

Who has the Truth in Bible alone Protestantism? It’s a sea of conflicted opinions and doctrines, many flawed and man made institutions.