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Different interpretations based on different interpretations.... lol
- Thread starter TheOldRanger
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I am. Waiting for you to address what I actually wrote:
if God could 'specially preserve' Mary, He could 'specially preserve' Jesus (God in the Flesh) and then Mary didn't need to be sinless (which she wasn't Rom 3:23). I mean you said above that, 'No, Mary’s mother didn’t have to be sinless.'
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So how many sinless individuals are we speaking of here?
He/she said that Mary's mother didn't have to be sinless because God 'specially preserved' her to be sinless. I'm still waiting for him/her to address my response to that. I'm trying again in #122.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why would I read or even trust the RCC catechism? You claim mary was siinless so are you now saying that a human can be sinless? You must have clear scripture to back up that outrageous claim.
Posting out of context verses do not support your claim. If the RCC wants to make extraordinary claims they need to provide clear unambiguous scripture to support it. You and your RCC have failed to do so.
So no you have not proved me wrong but I have shown via numerous verses that your view is errant.
You are following dogma not scripture.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Good luck on getting a straight answer. They like to dance around the issue.
It just shows the length that those in the rc denomination will go to defend their heretical teachings.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Not all that they teach is heretical but much of it is suspect. They rely to much on dogma and not enough on scripture.
God did preserve Jesus by making Mary sinless, it was possible for her to conceive Him from her sinless flesh.
She conceived, so Jesus took His flesh from her sinless flesh, simple.
Rom. 3:23 If you take it to mean all individuals “all have sinned” also refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin.
Mary was preserved from sin, her mission was special. “ The Almighty has done great things for me “ one of the great things was to preserve her from sin, so she could conceive sinless Jesus from her sinless flesh.
God made sinless people before. Adam and Eve were created sinless, it’s well within His power. Didn’t mean that they were on the same level as Jesus, they were still creatures, yet sinless.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@Cathode all you do is preach the RCC dogma but do not provide scripture to support it. You have made yourself willfully blind to the truth of scripture. If you showed as much concern about God's word as you do the word from the RCC you would humble yourself and ask for forgiveness. Those that abuse the word of God will suffer the wrath of the author of that word. My God have mercy on your soul.
I’m not the one subjecting scripture to my fallible opinion, that’s very dangerous.
You don’t have to trust it, you can read it to see what Catholics actually believe, rather than bear false witness and commit slander.
Mary is a creature, she is not equal to or elevated to Jesus level or higher, that’s not what the Catholic Church teaches.
Don’t resort to slander and false witness, using the weapons of darkness and sinning doesn’t win the debate, it just earns punishment.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Actually the text of the bible is not hard to read or understand. You should try it sometime.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I am not the one that venerates mary, has statues of her that people pray to, do not ask her to pray for me. Last time I heard, dead people do not do a lot of praying either for themselves or others. Mary was just a sinful woman that was used of God to carry the Christ child. The RCC has given her special status.
You say I commit slander, that is quite a charge. So what slander have I committed? Are you saying that these are not RCC doctrines "Mary worship, transubstantiation, prugatory, papal infallibility, works salvation, confession to priests"
I have been asking you to provide clear biblical text that supports these and you have not provide proof for even one.
This does get very tiring dealing with those that will not answer even simple questions.
What you are supporting is RCC dogma not the bible.
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Accuse Catholics of what they actually believe.
We don’t elevate Mary to the level of Jesus, never have and if you read the Catholic Catechism ( The compendium of our beliefs ) you will see Mary is still believed to be a creature, not divine like Jesus.
So you commit slander saying this, which is sinful.
Don’t think you can slander and lie, because you believe you are saved and have a free pass to sin all you like.
If you have to sin to try win a debate, the debate itself has become less than unedifying, and is offensive to God and man.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Do you not venerate mary, do you not pray to her, Actually you pray more to her than you do to God.
You make a lot of claims, but do not refute what I have said
Is this not part of your rosary that you pray
HAIL MARY, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
Only God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are Holy. You have elevated mary on the same level as God when you call her Holy.
I notice you spend a lot more time praying to mary than you do to the Father or Christ. So logically you place her over them in importance. Why do you think a dead person can pray for you?
Is this not how you say your rosary:
INTRODUCTION
1. IN THE NAME…
2. I BELIEVE IN GOD…
3. OUR FATHER…
4. HAIL MARY…
5. HAIL MARY…
6. HAIL MARY…
7. GLORY BE…
8. O MY JESUS…
THE FIRST DECADE
9. ANNOUNCE…
10. OUR FATHER…
11. HAIL MARY…
12. HAIL MARY…
13. HAIL MARY…
14. HAIL MARY…
15. HAIL MARY…
16. HAIL MARY…
17. HAIL MARY…
18. HAIL MARY…
19. HAIL MARY…
20. HAIL MARY…
21. GLORY BE…
22. O MY JESUS…
THE SECOND DECADE
23. ANNOUNCE…
24. OUR FATHER…
25. HAIL MARY…
26. HAIL MARY…
27. HAIL MARY…
28. HAIL MARY…
29. HAIL MARY…
30. HAIL MARY…
31. HAIL MARY…
32. HAIL MARY…
33. HAIL MARY…
34. HAIL MARY…
35. GLORY BE…
36. O MY JESUS
THE THIRD DECADE
37. ANNOUNCE…
38. OUR FATHER…
39. HAIL MARY…
40. HAIL MARY…
41. HAIL MARY…
42. HAIL MARY…
43. HAIL MARY…
44. HAIL MARY…
45. HAIL MARY…
46. HAIL MARY…
47. HAIL MARY…
48. HAIL MARY…
49. GLORY BE…
50. O MY JESUS
THE FOURTH DECADE
51. ANNOUNCE…
52. OUR FATHER…
53. HAIL MARY…
54. HAIL MARY…
55. HAIL MARY…
56. HAIL MARY…
57. HAIL MARY…
58. HAIL MARY…
59. HAIL MARY…
60. HAIL MARY…
61. HAIL MARY…
62. HAIL MARY…
63. GLORY BE…
64. O MY JESUS…
THE FIFTH DECADE
65. ANNOUNCE…
66. OUR FATHER…
67. HAIL MARY…
68. HAIL MARY…
69. HAIL MARY…
70. HAIL MARY…
71. HAIL MARY…
72. HAIL MARY…
73. HAIL MARY…
74. HAIL MARY…
75. HAIL MARY…
76. HAIL MARY…
77. GLORY BE…
78. O MY JESUS…
CONCLUSION
79. HAIL HOLY QUEEN…
80. O GOD, WHOSE…
Mistake.
If you believed the scripture you wouldn’t say that.
“as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
Especially with Paul’s writings where Bible alonism really goes all over the place.
Those ignorant of Apostolic Tradition have come up with every conflicted interpretation and doctrine under the sun, in Paul’s writings. By what the “ words mean to them “.
Scripture warns that this leads to destruction. Private interpreters ignore this scripture and having ignored this scripture they go on in their misinterpretations of scripture.
See how this little step away from scripture leads further away. Scripture says it can be hard to understand, you say the opposite of scripture saying it’s easy to understand.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Actually it is because I do believe the bible that I say we can understand the bible.
1Jn 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
All Christians have the indwelling Holly Spirit, the author of God's Holy word. If we have Him in us then we can trust Him to lead us into a correct understanding of scripture.
You are trusting self interested men to tell you what the scriptures mean. They have brought unbiblical doctrines into the RCC and you are not will to trust the Holy Spirit to lead you to the truth.
The Hail Mary is the greeting of the Angel and the greeting of Elizabeth in Scripture.
The Lord’s Prayer which is also in the scripture.
The Gloria.
Glory be to The Father and to The Son and to The Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
But primarily we meditate on the Holy mysteries.
Monday & Saturday
- The Annunciation of the Lord to Mary
Mary is chosen to be the mother of Jesus. - The Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth
Elizabeth recognizes Mary as the mother of our Lord. - The Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ
Jesus is born and laid in a manger. - The Presentation of our Lord
Jesus is presented in the Temple of Jerusalem. - Finding Jesus in the Temple at age 12
Jesus is found discussing God's laws in the temple.
Tuesday & Friday
- The Agony of Jesus in the Garden
Jesus prays when confronted with the sins of the world. - The Scourging at the Pillar
Jesus is whipped before His execution. - Jesus is Crowned with Thorns
Jesus is mocked with a painful crown of thorns. - Jesus Carried the Cross
Jesus carries the weight of our sins to His crucifixion. - The Crucifixion of our Lord
Jesus Christ dies to save all mankind.
Glorious Mystery of the Rosary
Wednesday & Sunday
- The Resurrection of Jesus Christ
Jesus rises triumphant over death. - The Ascension of Jesus to Heaven
As Jesus ascends, He gives us a special task. - The Descent of the Holy Ghost
At Pentecost the Church is born. - The Assumption of Mary into Heaven
The Virgin Mary is gloriously assumed into heaven. - Mary is Crowned as Queen of Heaven and Earth
Mary is honored above all creatures.
Thursday
- The Baptism in the Jordan
God proclaims Jesus is His Son. - The Wedding at Cana
Jesus performs a surprising miracle at a wedding. - The Proclamation of the Kingdom
Jesus calls us to do something important. - The Transfiguration
Jesus is gloriously transformed. - The Institution of the Eucharist
Jesus shares His Body and Blood for our salvation.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Did you miss the part where you call her Holy 54 times during your rosary. She is not Holy any more that you or I are. She is a redeemed sinner.
Mary is Crowned as Queen of Heaven and Earth
Mary is honored above all creatures.
Mary was a chosen vessel as part of God's plan for the redemption of man. On what basis does the RCC call her the Queen of Heaven.
God is the sovereign/king are they suggesting that she is now His queen. Once again the RCC has elevated her to a position with Christ. She is neither Holy nor Queen, she is just a redeemed sinner.
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