Different interpretations based on different interpretations.... lol

[Cathode]

Yes God directed flawed men to preserve His word. Then flawed men chose to edit His word by removing or adding to the text. They have taken it upon themselves to institute doctrines not found in the bible and yet they want to claim they are the only ones that have preserved the bible.

You’re not a flawed man though, you condemn others wrong like you think you are without error.

I said "The only book that the RCC can claim for their own is the altered version of God's word. The RCC has taken the word of God and abused it and for this they will be judged."

Are you going to say that the RCC has not altered the text of scripture?

You can continue to make your false claims all day long but it will not alter the fact that your RCC is promoting a false religion of works salvation.

I have pointed out your errors but to no avail. You have chosen to follow the dictates of men rather than the word of God. May God have mercy on your soul.

You have zero authority to condemn the Catholic Church wrong on anything, it was the Catholic Church that told us what is scripture in the first place.

Not you.

 

[Silverhair]

When dealing with private interpreters of Scripture, they can make scripture mean what they want it to mean. Remember “ what do the words mean to you “, There is no objective truth in their interpretations, just subjective opinions.
The scripture means anything to each private interpreter that picks the bible up, they love their opinions more than the Truth.

So what happens when Scripture is quoted for them, they ignore it and put their own subjective interpretation on it.



If the Bible alone idea Luther birthed was true and each man just needed to interpret the Bible with the guidance of God.
Every Christian would be Lutheran interpreting and believing exactly the same doctrines Luther interpreted from Scripture.

It is a manifestly false idea.

So your telling that all the ideas that the RCC came up with are just their own, they are subjective. So why do you believe them? Remember in the RCC you do not study to find truth as your not allowed to do that as it might contradict the official RCC line. So what we have in the RCC is a large group of indoctrinated individuals that exhibit no critical thinking skills. Why study to show yourselves approved when you can have someone tell you what to think?

At least when I study the bible I have the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide me in accurately handling the word of truth.

 

[Cathode]

At least when I study the bible I have the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide me in accurately handling the word of truth.

That’s exactly what Martin Luther said. How does Luther’s Holy Spirit guided interpretations of Scripture compare with your own Holy Spirit guided interpretations of Scripture?

 

[Silverhair]

You’re not a flawed man though, you condemn others wrong like you think you are without error.



You have zero authority to condemn the Catholic Church wrong on anything, it was the Catholic Church that told us what is scripture in the first place.

Not you.

I have never claimed not to be flawed, I leave that to your pope. I do not condemn the RCC on my authority but rather on the authority of the Holy word of God.

God working through flawed men told us what His scriptures were not your RCC. You give your flawed men way to much credit. God throughout scripture has used flawed men some even pagans to accomplish His goal.

The fact you will not defend the errant RCC doctrines via scripture speaks volumes.

 

[Cathode]

I have never claimed not to be flawed, I leave that to your pope. I do not condemn the RCC on my authority but rather on the authority of the Holy word of God.

You are not the arbiter of scriptures meaning, who appointed you, or are you self appointed like so many others.

 

[Silverhair]

That’s exactly what Martin Luther said. How does Luther’s Holy Spirit guided interpretations of Scripture compare with your own Holy Spirit guided interpretations of Scripture?

Well since I have never met Luther I can not tell you what he was lead to believe. But you still avoid the real issue. Where does the RCC get it's authority to alter the actual text of scripture? Where does the RCC get it's authority to add all your errant views?

You seem to be really consumed with what you see as errors in other churches but you refuse to see those right in your own.

Luther must really bother you, I would guess that is because as an insider he was able to point out the errors in the RCC. Perhaps that is why you refer to him so much.

 

[Silverhair]

You are not the arbiter of scriptures meaning, who appointed you, or are you self appointed like so many others.

You must be speaking of the RCC since you keep telling us that only they can tell us what scripture means. What some man says.

For me I just trust the leading of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cathode]

Well since I have never met Luther I can not tell you what he was lead to believe. But you still avoid the real issue. Where does the RCC get it's authority to alter the actual text of scripture? Where does the RCC get it's authority to add all your errant views?

You seem to be really consumed with what you see as errors in other churches but you refuse to see those right in your own.

Luther must really bother you, I would guess that is because as an insider he was able to point out the errors in the RCC. Perhaps that is why you refer to him so much.

Luther came up with the unscriptural “ Bible alone “ doctrine.

He said all you needed was the Bible and The Holy Spirit would guide your interpretation of Scripture. You believe that.

So do you believe the same doctrines Luther interpreted from the Bible ?

 

[Silverhair]

Luther came up with the unscriptural “ Bible alone “ doctrine.

He said all you needed was the Bible and The Holy Spirit would guide your interpretation of Scripture. You believe that.

So do you believe the same doctrines Luther interpreted from the Bible ?

That is a real leap on your part. You just can not accept the reality that your RCC is not the be all and end all.You have allowed some man to tell you what the bible means rather than trust the Holy Spirit to guide you. I could understand your allegiance to your pope if we did not see so much corruption coming out of the RCC. This is not a new thing as it has been going on for 100's of yrs.

You have willfully blinded yourself to these problems or you just accept them, I am not sure which.

What I believe is what the bible teaches me. @37818 was correct when he pointed you to these verses:
1Jn 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
1Jn 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

The false teachings of the RCC are and abuse of scripture made in the attempt to deceive those that do not know and trust scripture. The fact that you can justify the abuse is very telling. You are more loyal to the RCC than you are to God and His word. May He have mercy on your soul.

 

[MrW]

The scripture itself says to hold to both the Oral Tradition of the Apostles and the written Tradition of the Apostles together.
When you go Bible alone, you are not following the Bible, the Bible doesn’t teach that.
There is a Living Church with a Living Oral Tradition and Understanding handed down from the Apostles to explain the Scripture.

The people holding to Bible alone, have departed the Bible teaching.

There is no Oral Tradition—doesn’t exist.

 

[Cathode]

That is a real leap on your part. You just can not accept the reality that your RCC is not the be all and end all.You have allowed some man to tell you what the bible means rather than trust the Holy Spirit to guide you. I could understand your allegiance to your pope if we did not see so much corruption coming out of the RCC. This is not a new thing as it has been going on for 100's of yrs.

You have willfully blinded yourself to these problems or you just accept them, I am not sure which.

What I believe is what the bible teaches me. @37818 was correct when he pointed you to these verses:
1Jn 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
1Jn 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

The false teachings of the RCC are and abuse of scripture made in the attempt to deceive those that do not know and trust scripture. The fact that you can justify the abuse is very telling. You are more loyal to the RCC than you are to God and His word. May He have mercy on your soul.

So really, Luther’s new idea of scripture alone is false, and every interpretation you make that is different, proves it.

If The Holy Spirit was guiding your interpretations of Scripture, you would all agree on the same interpretation and doctrines, despite all human weakness.
The Holy Spirit is The Spirit of Truth.

Look at all the conflicted interpretations, and all by people who claim to be following the Bible alone.

If the Bible alone doctrine was true, this would not be happening.

That is why it ultimately comes down to those who love the Truth, and deny their own opinions to obtain it.

 

[Cathode]

There is no Oral Tradition—doesn’t exist.

For the people whose ears are stopped up, they won’t hear a thing.

 

[Silverhair]

So really, Luther’s new idea of scripture alone is false, and every interpretation you make that is different, proves it.

If The Holy Spirit was guiding your interpretations of Scripture, you would all agree on the same interpretation and doctrines, despite all human weakness.
The Holy Spirit is The Spirit of Truth.

Look at all the conflicted interpretations, and all by people who claim to be following the Bible alone.

If the Bible alone doctrine was true, this would not be happening.

That is why it ultimately comes down to those who love the Truth, and deny their own opinions to obtain it.

So which one of these can not be found in scripture by reading it for ourselves and guided by the Holy Spirit?

God, is Creator of Heaven and earth and all that is in them.

The Trinity, that in the one Godhead there are three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The verdict of the Holy Scriptures concerning human sin. We are all condemned by our sin and salvation is only by grace through faith in the risen Son.

Christ’s suffering upon the cross to atone for our sins, His burial, and His resurrection on the third day, and then His ascension to Heaven after forty days.

The judgment to come, and of the existence of Heaven and Hell

These are all biblical whereas the RCC views on "Mary worship, transubstantiation, prugatory, papal infallibility, works salvation" are not. None of these are found in scripture are they?

 

[Silverhair]

For the people whose ears are stopped up, they won’t hear a thing.

I have been pointing out your errors and you have covered your eyes so that you can not see. You are being willfully blind.

You have chosen to follow the dictates of man rather than the words of God.

 

[Cathode]

I have been pointing out your errors and you have covered your eyes so that you can not see. You are being willfully blind.

You have chosen to follow the dictates of man rather than the words of God.

First, you are following Luthers error of scripture alone, and scripture doesn’t even teach that. So you are following the dictates of man.

If you really did hold to scripture you hold to the Oral Tradition of the Apostles and written Tradition together. You fail on both counts.

 

[Cathode]

So which one of these can not be found in scripture by reading it for ourselves and guided by the Holy Spirit?

God, is Creator of Heaven and earth and all that is in them.

The Trinity, that in the one Godhead there are three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The verdict of the Holy Scriptures concerning human sin. We are all condemned by our sin and salvation is only by grace through faith in the risen Son.

Christ’s suffering upon the cross to atone for our sins, His burial, and His resurrection on the third day, and then His ascension to Heaven after forty days.

The judgment to come, and of the existence of Heaven and Hell

These are all biblical whereas the RCC views on "Mary worship, transubstantiation, prugatory, papal infallibility, works salvation" are not. None of these are found in scripture are they?

You believe in scripture alone, ie “ What is written alone “.

Catholics are ‘ Word of God alone “ , the Word of God comes down to us in both Spoken and Written forms. Both are of the same force.

“but the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word that was preached to you.“ 1 Peter 1:25

So the preached Oral Tradition of the Apostles endures forever, you and your Tradition of “ what is written alone “ reject that.

“ hold to the traditions we taught you, either word of mouth or letter.”

The Apostolic Oral Tradition explains the written Tradition and is handed down in the Church and is preserved and guarded by The Holy Spirit over 2000 years.

There is a big difference between your idea of “ what do the words mean to me “ and Spoken Word of God guarded by The Holy Spirit, explaining the written word of God.

Scripture says that the Spoken Word of God abides forever, yet you say only the written word does, that’s your error.

This is why you and all Bible aloners , interpret conflicted doctrines from the same scripture. Human traditions all interpreting by “ what do the words mean to me “.

True interpretation doesn’t matter, just “ what do the words mean to me”.

So even though Scripture tells us Oral Tradition exists, and abides forever, we get ignorant statements like.

“ There is no Oral Tradition— doesn’t exist.”

There is both a denial of Scripture and Oral Tradition happening here.

 

[Cathode]

Mary is sinless because Jesus was conceived of her sinless flesh, and He had no sin.

So long before The Immaculate Conception was defined, the Catholic Church still believed in Mary’s Immaculate sinlessness.

“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.” Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71:216 (ante AD 373).

“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.” Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388).

“We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.” Augustine, Nature and Grace,4 2[36] (A.D.415).

“As he formed her without my stain of her own, so He proceeded from her contracting no stain.” Proclus of Constantinople, Homily 1 (ante A.D. 446).

 

[37818]

Mary is sinless because Jesus was conceived of her sinless flesh, and He had no sin.

Wrong on two counts.
Both have to do with the eternal Son of God was always God the Creator.

Luke 18:19, ". . . And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. . . ."

Hebrews 4:15, ". . . For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. . . ."

Hebrews 1:3, ". . . Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; . . ."

John 1:9-10, ". . . true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, . . ."

 

[Silverhair]

First, you are following Luthers error of scripture alone, and scripture doesn’t even teach that. So you are following the dictates of man.

If you really did hold to scripture you hold to the Oral Tradition of the Apostles and written Tradition together. You fail on both counts.

Your like a broken record, you skip back to the same response all the time. Do you think making a false claim 50 times will some how make it true?

Try supporting your claim with scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

You believe in scripture alone, ie “ What is written alone “.

Catholics are ‘ Word of God alone “ , the Word of God comes down to us in both Spoken and Written forms. Both are of the same force.

“but the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word that was preached to you.“ 1 Peter 1:25

So the preached Oral Tradition of the Apostles endures forever, you and your Tradition of “ what is written alone “ reject that.

“ hold to the traditions we taught you, either word of mouth or letter.”

The Apostolic Oral Tradition explains the written Tradition and is handed down in the Church and is preserved and guarded by The Holy Spirit over 2000 years.

There is a big difference between your idea of “ what do the words mean to me “ and Spoken Word of God guarded by The Holy Spirit, explaining the written word of God.

Scripture says that the Spoken Word of God abides forever, yet you say only the written word does, that’s your error.

This is why you and all Bible aloners , interpret conflicted doctrines from the same scripture. Human traditions all interpreting by “ what do the words mean to me “.

True interpretation doesn’t matter, just “ what do the words mean to me”.

So even though Scripture tells us Oral Tradition exists, and abides forever, we get ignorant statements like.

“ There is no Oral Tradition— doesn’t exist.”

There is both a denial of Scripture and Oral Tradition happening here.

Lets see if I can make this clear for you. We have God's written word, the bible. The one that tells us to be suspect of false teachers that try to bring false teachings into the church.
1Jn 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
1Jn 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
That is why we have the indwelling Holy Spirit. I will trust God over man. You on the other hand trust man over God.

What do we see in the RCC but the attempt to deceive. "Mary worship, transubstantiation, prugatory, papal infallibility, works salvation, confession to priests" None of these are found in scripture are they.

So anything that you call tradition or following the spoken word is at best hearsay and your RCC has proven itself to not to be a trustworthy provider of the truth. The RCC has piled false claim upon false claim and then expects us to trust what they say.

Luther, as an insider, saw the corruption of the RCC and pointed it out and even he did not go far enough. The RCC is anti God at it's core. And the sad part is that many of those that know this truth will continue to support the RCC as they have to much invested in it and it would hurt their pride to say they had been duped all along.