Difficult Bible Questions

[Alofa Atu]

They arrived Saturday evening.

No.

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Mar 16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
Mar 16:4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.

Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luk 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.​

 

[Alofa Atu]

How can God produce children of Abraham from stones? Where in scripture does it show how he actually does this?

Adam was made from the dust (small particles of rocks) of the earth. But the phrase in question is a matter of the spiritual, of the stoney heart (Zechariah 7:12). John was speaking of those around him in matters conversion, by which the word of God brings life to those who believeth. In other words, God was able to change the hardened heart through faith. The pharisees thought that the physical descendancy mattered, while John and later Jesus, said not so. It was the heart worship required.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Why did Gideon reject being set up as a king then name his son “his father is king”?

Firstly:

Jdg 8:30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.

Jdg 8:31 And his concubine that was in Shechem, she also bare him a son, whose name he called Abimelech.​

Secondly:

Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Pro_17:6 Children's children are the crown of old men; and the glory of children are their fathers.

A father is a ruler over their children, as unto the LORD.​

Thirdly:

Jdg 8:23 And Gideon said unto them, I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you: the LORD shall rule over you.​

His true Father (Exodus 20:12), is the LORD (just as Jesus' true Father is the LORD God, the Ancient of Days). See:

Genesis 6:2,4; Deuteronomy 14:1; 2 Samuel 7:14; Isaiah 8:18, 9:6, 63:16, 64:8; Hosea 1:10; Matthew 5:9,45 6:9; Luke 3:38, 6:35,36, 11:2, 20:26; John 1:12, 11:52, 12:36; Romans 1:7, 8:14,16,17,19,21, 9:8, 9:26 [citing Hosea 1:10 KJB]; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:2, 6:18; Galatians 1:4, 3:26, 4:6,7; Ephesians 5:1; Philippians 1:2, 2:15, 4:20; Colossians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 3:11,13; 2 Thessalonians 1:1,2, 2:16; Titus 1:4; Philemon 1:3; Hebrews 2:10,13 [citing Isaiah 8:18 KJB], 12:7,9; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 1:3, 3:1,2, 5:2.​

Hos 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

 

[Alofa Atu]

So far, none of these 'questions' are difficult, in the slightest.

I am going to recommend a helpful (not perfect) book: https://ia801901.us.archive.org/26/...an - The 'Errors' in the King James Bible.pdf

Then a helpful website: http://supernaturalresources.epizy.com

 

[1689Dave]

Adam was made from the dust (small particles of rocks) of the earth. But the phrase in question is a matter of the spiritual, of the stoney heart (Zechariah 7:12). John was speaking of those around him in matters conversion, by which the word of God brings life to those who believeth. In other words, God was able to change the hardened heart through faith. The pharisees thought that the physical descendancy mattered, while John and later Jesus, said not so. It was the heart worship required.

Nice, but it was circumcision (broken rock knives) that made one Abraham's child.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

If the Nephalim were destroyed in the flood, how did they appear in Canaan to the 10 spies?

It depends only upon assumptions made about how to correctly translate the term, and how the "Nephilim" came to be.

I maintain "giants" is a good translation, and there is therefore no particular reason why "giants" are not also extant post-flood.
The idea that "Nephilim" must mean some super-natural demonic-human hybrid would imply they were wiped out in the flood and thus either God's solution was a failed one or it simply happened again....
That is why "were wiped-out in the flood" causes an issue.

I do not assume that, and I don't think the text forces us to take that conclusion.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Both happened.

They didn't.
They were giants, and the sons of Anak:

" Nevertheless the people [be] strong that dwell in the land, and the cities [are] walled, [and] very great: and moreover we saw the children of Anak there. " ( Numbers 13:28, AV ).
" And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, [which come] of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight." ( Numbers 13:33, AV ).

True, there were twelve spies, and 10 gave a bad report, while Caleb and Joshua had faith in the Lord.
Regardless, the NASB seems to think they were the Nephilim:

" There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.” ( Numbers 13:33, NASB )
Even though the Hebrew uses a slightly different word in Numbers 13:
" Athenphilim" or, "the ones distinguished", it is similar to the word found in Genesis 6:4... "enphilim" or "ones distinguished" and rendered as "giants".

Nevertheless,
There were giants both before and after the Flood.

I agree....except to clarify (if I misunderstood you at all) I would say there were actually "Nephilim" after the flood.
I do believe the Sons of Anak and the "Rephaim" and other "giants" are all "Nephilim".

If the KJV translated rightly (I believe it did). Then "Nephilim" need only mean "giant"....and as you point out the "Sons of Anak" (who are Nephilim) are a sub-set of giants.
I personally do not believe that they were the result of Demon-human breeding. If we disabuse ourselves of that assumption, there's no reason that "Nephilim" couldn't exist post-flood.

The Hebrew is tricky....but as Genesis 6 reads:
...."there were 'giants' (Nephilim) in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God....."
I believe "and also after that".....is it saying something like there were giants then, and also later on.....
Hebrew sentence structure is not nearly as defined as English sentence structure.
(It reads like one elongated run-on sentence).
Grammatically, I think the text can be understood as it saying that there were "Nephilim then, and also after then"....or something to that effect...

Thus, I don't think the text forces us to conclude that the "Nephilim" were wiped out at the flood or that that was God's purpose.
The reason God flooded the earth according to the text was as a result of MAN'S wickedness, not that of demon-hybrids. Thus, I think the "demon-hybrid" explanation has some problems that aren't easily dismissed.
The assumption Sai is making is the assumption that "Nephilim" are a demon-hybrid and that the flood was purposed to wipe them out.
That makes God's solution ineffective, as God clearly seems not to have known that Noah or his wife carried "Nephilim" genetics and was therefore not a sufficient cure for the problem.
But, I do l think your post is quite solid, and thank you for your sound biblical observations here!

Thanks

 

[Dave G]

Nice, but it was circumcision (broken rock knives) that made one Abraham's child.

But is it the circumcision of the flesh that makes one a child of Abraham ( a child of the promise ), or the circumcision of the heart?

" For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 but he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God." ( Romans 2:25-29 ).

If of the heart, then Jesus was telling the Pharisees that God is able to make spiritual children of the very stones.
And, if of the heart ( regeneration ), then how can stone knives make one born again?

 

[Sai]

It depends only upon assumptions made about how to correctly translate the term, and how the "Nephilim" came to be.

I maintain "giants" is a good translation, and there is therefore no particular reason why "giants" are not also extant post-flood.
The idea that "Nephilim" must mean some super-natural demonic-human hybrid would imply they were wiped out in the flood and thus either God's solution was a failed one or it simply happened again....
That is why "were wiped-out in the flood" causes an issue.

I do not assume that, and I don't think the text forces us to take that conclusion.

So you agree with the 10 spies that caused the judgement of death in the wilderness. [emoji848]

 

[Sai]

The tree is not high enough to cause this. The body could not have decomposed. What did happen was the law of the Mishna. It was required that if someone killed himself inside the city that his dead body be thrown from the wall in order to cleanse the city for the sabbath.

Of course this is not found in the law of Moses but by the first century the law had been for the most part replaced by the traditions of the elders or more specifically, the Mishnaic law codes.

 

[1689Dave]

But is it the circumcision of the flesh that makes one a child of Abraham ( a child of the promise ), or the circumcision of the heart?

" For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 but he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God." ( Romans 2:25-29 ).

If of the heart, then Jesus was telling the Pharisees that God is able to make spiritual children of the very stones.
And, if of the heart ( regeneration ), then how can stone knives make one born again?

Here's what I'm getting at. When Jesus abolished circumcision, nothing remained to make someone a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. Only those circumcised in heart remained Israel and the unbelievers became gentiles with no claim to the promises.

 

[MartyF]

For Marty F and others, it’s too bad you feel so threatened by this portion of scripture, it’s a sign of weakness in your confidence about the subject.

If the Nephalim were destroyed in the flood, how did they appear in Canaan to the 10 spies?

This may help out in understanding who the Nephilim are.

Thx MF but I’m good

Well, if you're not interested in conversing . . .

What’s to discuss? You disagree? Fine, you have the right to be wrong.

 

[Dave G]

When Jesus abolished circumcision, nothing remained to make someone a physical Jew or physical member of Israel.

What about being a physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Did that simply stop with the new covenant?
I don't believe so.
That is why I see two different kinds of "Jew" mentioned in the New Testament...

One is a physical "Jew" outwardly, rests in the Law of Moses for their "righteousness", and does not believe on Jesus Christ... to this day.
The other is a physical "Jew" outwardly, rests in Jesus Christ for their righteousness, and is therefore a "Jew" inwardly.

Then along comes the Gentile, same thing.
One is either a physical Gentile and outside of Christ, or one is a spiritual Gentile within the spiritual body of Christ...
A "Jew" inwardly.

In Christ, both are the "Israel of God".
The saved Jew is part of the olive tree, while the saved Gentile was grafted in to that olive tree.

 

[Dave G]

Only those circumcised in heart remained Israel and the unbelievers became gentiles with no claim to the promises.

I'm sorry sir, but I disagree.

Israel is still Israel as a nation of the physical descendants of Jacob.
They are not "Israel" in the spiritual sense, but they are "Israel" in the physical sense and are still beloved of God, as a nation, for the sake of their fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

" For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 for this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers’ sakes." ( Romans 11:14-28 ).

At Christ's coming, He will deliver the nation and shall turn away ungodliness from His people, Israel.

Think of it like a "y" in the road...
Israel has been set aside as a nation with regard to the blessings of God through salvation, and the Gentile nations are now His focus.
Someday the road will converge again to include the nation as a whole, on the day of His coming.

The olive tree is still the olive tree, and will always include the remnant of those within Israel whom God has elected, in addition to those Gentiles who are elect.



To me, it's an amazing thing to look forward to seeing for myself.

 

[1689Dave]

I'm sorry sir, but I disagree.

Israel is still Israel as a nation of the physical descendants of Jacob.
They are not "Israel" in the spiritual sense, but they are "Israel" in the physical sense and are still beloved of God for the sake of their fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

" For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 for this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers’ sakes." ( Romans 11:14-28 ).

At Christ's coming, He will deliver the nation and shall turn away ungodliness from His people, Israel.

Think of it like a "y" in the road...
Israel has been set aside as a nation with regard to the blessings of God through salvation, and the Gentile nations are now His focus.
Someday the road will converge again to include the nation as a whole, on the day of His coming.

The olive tree is still the olive tree, and will always include the remnant of those within Israel whom God has elected, in addition to those Gentiles who are elect.


May God bless you in your studies, sir.

This is not true. Abraham circumcised his slaves and their families and they became his covenant seed. At the time Ishmael was his only household relative. He too became covenant seed through circumcision. He lost his status when Abraham excommunicated him. It has always been about circumcision and nothing else. Christ abolished circumcision making all related Jews similar to Ishmael. They have no claim to the promises. “For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him ‘Amen’, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (NCPB)

 

[1689Dave]

What about being a physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Did that simply stop with the new covenant?
I don't believe so.
That is why I see two different kinds of "Jew" mentioned in the New Testament...

One is a physical "Jew" outwardly, rests in the Law of Moses for their "righteousness", and does not believe on Jesus Christ... to this day.
The other is a physical "Jew" outwardly, rests in Jesus Christ for their righteousness, and is therefore a "Jew" inwardly.

Then along comes the Gentile, same thing.
One is either a physical Gentile and outside of Christ, or one is a spiritual Gentile within the spiritual body of Christ...
A "Jew" inwardly.

In Christ, both are the "Israel of God".
The saved Jew is part of the olive tree, while the saved Gentile was grafted in to that olive tree.

It still depended on circumcision. “And the uncircumcised man-child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people: he hath broken my covenant.’” Genesis 17:14 (NCPB)

 

[Sai]

Any last final questions?

 

[Sai]

Why did Paul not circumcise Titus and then circumcise Timothy?

 

[Dave G]

Christ abolished circumcision making all related Jews similar to Ishmael. They have no claim to the promises. “For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him ‘Amen’, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (NCPB)

Circumcision makes one a Jew outwardly, in the physical sense.

But the Jews still enjoy certain promises made to them by God...
If they believe on Christ, whether individually or as a nation, they will be grafted back into their own olive tree ( Romans 11:23-24 ).

Also, did you miss this in your reading?

" I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;
5 whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." ( Romans 9:1-5 ).

Salvation is "of"( originating with, by or from ) the Jews.
The Gospel was preached to them first, and then to the Gentiles.
There was a reason for that.

The nation still has a claim to the promises, because they are His people first.
If they as a nation believe on Him, which will happen when He comes again ( Zechariah 12:10, John 19:37, Revelation 1:7, ), then they will be accepted of Him and be shown to be accepted of Him..


Again, beloved of God for the sake of the fathers ( Romans 11:28 ).

 

[Dave G]

@1689Dave :

That's why every nation that messes with God's chosen nation, even today, inevitably gets punished by God for it.
Even though the Lord sent a sword after them, afflicted them with famine and pestilence and so forth for not obeying Him, at the end of it all, they are still His covenant people, temporally ( on this earth ), and the promises towards them are still in effect.

Just because the Lord Jesus fulfilled all demands of the Law and then instituted a new covenant of grace through faith in His blood, does not mean that He is done with Israel as am earthly nation.
He has not replaced them on this earth with the Church.

To me, the prophecies regarding nations who afflict Israel and that describe Israel as being scattered among the nations are double prophecies, at least in some cases...
They concern both "spiritual Israel" as well as "physical Israel".
It is a serious thing for anyone to touch God's anointed, and He will recompense those who touch them...whether they are "Israel" or Israel does not matter.

Cases in point:

Babylon, Assyria, the Philistines, Rome, Germany, and any other empire that has persecuted the Jews as a nation gains God's wrath upon them and will fall ( or have fallen ) as a nation or an empire.

But with regard to Israel as a nation, He has set them aside in the matter of salvation until He is done with the Gentiles.
That "setting aside" has a time limit...
They will be restored to Him, as a nation, when He comes again and He shall bring them into their own land and shall rule over them as their Shepherd ( Ezekiel 37 ).


This is why I do not believe in a-millenialism, why I'm not a Preterist, and why I am pre-millenial and post-Tribulational...
Because of all the prophecies found in Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel and Zechariah, to name a few.
I take them literally, not figuratively, the same as the prophecies concerning Christ's first coming, the ones concerning His second coming will also be literally fulfilled.
What the Pharisees missed was the time gap between the two comings of Christ.

But it seems that we don't see eye to eye on this, so I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.


Good afternoon to you sir.