Discussion of Predestination

You either believe in God's sovereignty or you dont. Yet you mix in free will of man on your terms. What was that sentence you said about holding to a system riddled with inconsistency?

 

My point is quite valid. I fully understand that there is nothing good in man, and that a work of the Holy Spirit is needed for salvation. On the contrary, you seem to let free will sneak in ever so subtly. I have read Romans 7 many, many times. While you claim to believe in the sovereignty of God and believe man is powerless not to sin (which is true), you constantly and consistantly bring up free will. Free will to do what? Your long posts are not consistant and therefore your points are not valid, just semi arminian.

 

Consequences

The missunderstanding of words really make people not understanding scripture.

Sovreignty means God makes the rules and the consequences for breaking them. That doesn't mean He makes the choices for us. Whosever believes shall be saved and whosoever doesl not shall be condemned.

It is our choice, and we will pay the consequenses for our choice.

Man always wants to blame God. It was the snake you created, it was the women you gave, now it is because God didn't chose me.

It is your fault not God's. God chose you when you heard the message and believers our the messegers.

If someone doesn't hear than man is going against God's will by not telling the world the hope we have.

If you do not chose God when you heard the message it, it is not because God didn't choose but you chose not to believe.

We have Good News for the world.

Do not be deceived by God being sovereign mean that you have no choice.

The young rich ruler was drawn to Jesus by the Father, chosen by Jesus and yet walked away.

God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Do not be deceived, believe God not men.

 

I will let you analyze the confessions of faith. The Bible is fine for me thank you. I never said I believe in double predestination. I said you are trying to inject free will of man in your theology of salvation and at the same time declare the sovereignty of God. If you mean by free will I have the choice of whether to go to work or not that is one thing, but you keep bringing up free will in the context of predestination.

I am not going to even comment about the adjective you used in the last post except to say that it is consistant with your character of name calling.

 

truth

The scripture teaches there is nothing good in the flesh, where does it say the whole being of man is corrupt, that by the work of the Holy Spirit go through the flesh right to the part of man that want to do good but evil is waging war against it, and give it a choice.

God is more powerful than we make Him out to be.

The world was missing the Holy Spirit and men had no hope and when Jesus was lifted up He sent the Holy Spirit back out into the world, now the Holy Spirit is right at the door of every man asking to come in and God made us who believe the messenger

 

Romans 1, 3:10, and Isaiah 64:6 for starters. Evil wages a war in the believer. Evil owns the unsaved person, so there is nothing to fight about. War is waged in the believer between a quickened spirit and the flesh nature still in us. Romans 7 and 8 describe this.

 

We all have that problem believers and non believers.

We have a war waging against us, but it doesn't stop us from seeking the help God offers us. It is true we didn't seek the help, but God seeked us to give us the hope.

When we accept the Holy Spirit and open the door. He will come in and change our live's

Our hope will be in Jesus, never in ourselves.

The Holy spirit is just right outside asking us to open the door, we are no longer depraved because He is right at the door.

We are messenger of a great hope.

 

Whosoever believes in me shall(is predestined) to be saved and whosever does not shall( is predestined) to be condemned

 

syllogism (Greek: συλλογισμός — "conclusion", "inference"), more correctly a categorical syllogism, is a kind of logical argument in which one proposition (the conclusion) is inferred from two others (the premises) of a certain form

 

Why dont you use words that the average layman can understand? Once the meaning is known, the concepts are quite simple.

 

Saturn,

Believe it or not, I may be with you on this one. The key word is "free". I think it is better said that man has a will, but it is bound. To the unsaved man the choice is free. Yet later we can see how God has worked to bring about our salvation.

If man had a freewill, and God did not elect, salvation would be a more random product of nature, based on where you are born and the environment you live in. We all would agree that all men do not have the same opportunities to hear the gospel. Either God is in control though election, or chaos brings about election by nature. If God is behind the choosing, then those that He chooses to have the understanding of God, would have the choice to choose after it is given to them, while this action would keep in place the binds of others will. Although this is a choice my the person, it really is not freewill. All men do have a will, yet not a freewill, for if you know not of the true God, then that choice of God is not on the table and tis bound to the choice you have.

The choice of God comes only after man knows of God and gains understanding and believes. If a man hears the gospel and believes the 1st time he goes to church it is a call to him by God to come and a choice by him to take Gods gift. It is a choice made by him, but is it freewill, if God lead him to that church on the right night with a message that was mean for him to hear, when he had planned on going to a ball game for weeks, but did not go, because the game was rained out?

So….is God in control? If so, man does not have free choice.

Or…is life just chaos and by chance only. If this is the case, election is a random product of nature.

There is no middle ground.


In Christ...James

 

I think you mean chaos. Khaos was the evil organization that fought Control, the agency that employed Maxwell Smart and agent 99.

 

Wow, I am going to faint. On the serious side, even after we as elect are given the nature of God, do we really have the choice to say no? Absolutely not. This is irresistable grace to me.

 

sorry about that chief :laugh:

 

HaHa..well you know me. I got it right on the top...but the 2nd time I used it...Khaos over took my mind, because I didn't wear my 345 Control jacket.

 

Ive got a feeling James doesnt look much like agent 99. (I mean when the show came out). :laugh:

 

Irresistable grace is easy to see. If man ever sees God as He really is, He will believe. For more on this, read each time Man came close to God.

Now we all do not have a great story like this. But, if man sees God in this light, grace is irresistable. The fear of the Lord, is the beginning of wisdom.