DISPENSATIONALISM

[kyredneck]

apart from assertions like Rom. 2:29 being a Jew is a follower of the OC by circumcision and NOT a NC believer baptised into Christ.

Wrong:

3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4

6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
7 neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. Ro 9

29 And if ye are Christ`s, then are ye Abraham`s seed, heirs according to promise. Gal 3

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Hos 1 ..... (just to cite a few)

I'm very surprised that you seem to have missed this huge 'motif' from the scriptures.

"'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond

 

[agedman]

I use dispensational as well as covenant thinking.

I see certain areas of agreement with them in the Scriptures.

I also reject certain areas of “Darby” presentation and covenantal thinking in association with the last days.

I conclude that it makes very little sense to grasp at the things some might need to validate God’s promises of Scripture. My God is faithful whether I need such validations or not. I do not.

Therefore, I hold these values.

The promise of the marriage supper prior to the millennium. Therefore, there will be a catching away of the believers “at the trumpet.” Which I don’t care, it is His to proclaim.

There is a judgment seat of Christ in which all believers will acknowledge that Christ is recognized as totally responsible for all our “rewards” and will cast them all at His feet.

There is that understanding in which we shall know as we are known without any hidden agenda or marring of vision, therefore there will be no prophecy, no tongues, no knowledge that is not totally complete in Him. That during the millennium the teaching is without rebuke, is pure, is totally Holy.

and I could go on,…

 

[AustinC]

Lets talk about the doctrine of Dispensation


One question I do have is "Can you believe in or not believe the Dispensation Doctrine and still go to heaven?"

Dispensationalism does not effect soteriology. Case in point, John MacArthur, a dispensationalist, was best of friends with RC Sproul, a covenant theologian. How could that be? It's because they both acknowledge justification by faith alone.

 

[Covenanter]

I've been trying to think out what you think I was thinking when you wrote all that against my reply to your question.

The erroneous implication of your question (below) is that the saints at Corinth became Jews. While Jewish believers were still Jews, the converted Gentiles are never called "Jews" in the NC Scriptures. Your reply affirms the spiritual status, covenant relationship, of all believers as Abraham's seed, children of Israel, people of God, but there is no suggestion that Gentile believers were ever called "Jews."

Wrong:

3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4

6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
7 neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. Ro 9

29 And if ye are Christ`s, then are ye Abraham`s seed, heirs according to promise. Gal 3

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Hos 1 ..... (just to cite a few)

I'm very surprised that you seem to have missed this huge 'motif' from the scriptures.

"'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond

Your question -

???

2 Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might led. 1 Cor 12

If the saints at Corinth were no longer Gentiles (non-Jews), they were ________ .

A. Inuit
B. Martians
C. Jews

Saints, Christians, Believers in Jesus Christ the Lord, followers of the Way, Disciples, the Church, et al, but apart from assertions like Rom. 2:29 being a Jew is a follower of the OC by circumcision and NOT a NC believer baptised into Christ. Note the triple division in 1 Cor. 10:32.

 

[kyredneck]

being a Jew is a follower of the OC by circumcision and NOT a NC believer baptised into Christ.

Which is the genuine article, the type or the antitype?

"'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond

 

[kyredneck]

being a Jew is a follower of the OC by circumcision and NOT a NC believer baptised into Christ.

Which is the genuine Jew? Which is the genuine circumcision? Which is that which matters, the spirit or the letter?

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

 

[Covenanter]

Your original question implied that as believing Gentiles are no longer Gentiles, but Jews. That, of course, is the reason why, in all his letters, Paul addressed "the Jews in the city."

Which is the genuine Jew? Which is the genuine circumcision? Which is that which matters, the spirit or the letter?

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

We are the true Jews, not those who call themselves "Jews" so we will rename our churches "synagogues" or "Jewish ecclesia." Let's add fuel to the "supercession/replacement" argument! Let confusion reign!

Certainly believers in the LORD Jesus Christ are the true Israel, the covenant "Holy Nation" one redeemed people of God including Jew & Gentile as one body in Christ, but Scripture uses various names to distinguish believers from unbelievers.

I refer to my original answer -

Saints, Christians, Believers in Jesus Christ the Lord, followers of the Way, Disciples, the Church, et al, but apart from assertions like Rom. 2:29 being a Jew is a follower of the OC by circumcision and NOT a NC believer baptised into Christ. Note the triple division in 1 Cor. 10:32.​

 

[Marooncat79]

Dispensationalism does not effect soteriology. Case in point, John MacArthur, a dispensationalist, was best of friends with RC Sproul, a covenant theologian. How could that be? It's because they both acknowledge justification by faith alone.

Austin

back in the day, Dispys actually believed that people in the “different dispensations” were saved “differently” depending upon which dispensation that they lived.

They actually denied Faith as the sole means of salvation. There was a Faith disp, a Faith and repentance disp, a Faith plus repentance plus works disp. It was very confusing.

this was especially evidenced in the Scofield Bibles and to a lesser degree the Ryrie although my understanding is that they have been modified. I have not owned either in over 30 yrs and have no idea what actually happened to mine.

I do not want to start up anything here. So please do not take as an attack.

without soteriology dispensationalism is nothing more than an eschatological view now days. It was not always true.

 

[kyredneck]

Your original question...

...my original intent in delving into this 'motif' was to refute the Jew-worshipping of the Dispensationalists.

2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision:
3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

 

[Yeshua1]

Dispensationalism does not effect soteriology. Case in point, John MacArthur, a dispensationalist, was best of friends with RC Sproul, a covenant theologian. How could that be? It's because they both acknowledge justification by faith alone.

There Both firmly held to a Reformed view on Sotierology proper!

 

[Yeshua1]

Austin

back in the day, Dispys actually believed that people in the “different dispensations” were saved “differently” depending upon which dispensation that they lived.

They actually denied Faith as the sole means of salvation. There was a Faith disp, a Faith and repentance disp, a Faith plus repentance plus works disp. It was very confusing.

this was especially evidenced in the Scofield Bibles and to a lesser degree the Ryrie although my understanding is that they have been modified. I have not owned either in over 30 yrs and have no idea what actually happened to mine.

I do not want to start up anything here. So please do not take as an attack.

without soteriology dispensationalism is nothing more than an eschatological view now days. It was not always true.

Original Scofield taught and held to saved by law under OT, but not taught by Ryrie, MacArthur, or later Scofields!

 

[Yeshua1]

Which is the genuine Jew? Which is the genuine circumcision? Which is that which matters, the spirit or the letter?

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

There are spiritual Jews, saved Jews, and we saved Gentiles now in one Body!

 

[MB]

???

2 Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might led. 1 Cor 12

If the saints at Corinth were no longer Gentiles (non-Jews), they were ________ .

A. Inuit
B. Martians
C. Jews

You are supposing what you want to believe.
MB

 

[MB]

There are spiritual Jews, saved Jews, and we saved Gentiles now in one Body!

More assumptions
MB

 

[MB]

More assumptions
MB

Gentiles are never called Jews. Being part of the body of Christ does not make us Jews.
MB

 

[AustinC]

Gentiles are never called Jews. Being part of the body of Christ does not make us Jews.
MB

Romans 2:28-29
For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Romans 9:6-8
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

Being descendants of Israel does not make a person Israel or children of the Promise.

A Jew is one inwardly. A Jew a person who has faith in the promised one, not one who traces his lineage and heritage through Jacob.

MB, you are stumbling over an important point.

 

[Lodic]

Gentiles are never called Jews. Being part of the body of Christ does not make us Jews.
MB

Ephesians 2:11-22 teaches that the True Jews are those who follow Christ. This point is made very strongly in Romans 2:17-29. So, in this sense, Gentiles are called Jews. Other passages also use the term "spiritual Israel" to refer to those who have been "grafted in". The point is that there is no advantage to being a "physical" Jew. There is only one "people of God", and we are all saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[37818]

So, in this sense, Gentiles are called Jews.

Your imagined view. Romans 1:16, ". . . salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

 

[Yeshua1]

Ephesians 2:11-22 teaches that the True Jews are those who follow Christ. This point is made very strongly in Romans 2:17-29. So, in this sense, Gentiles are called Jews. Other passages also use the term "spiritual Israel" to refer to those who have been "grafted in". The point is that there is no advantage to being a "physical" Jew. There is only one "people of God", and we are all saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.

Paul uses the term spiritual Israel to refer to saved Jews and Gentiles, while saved gentiles are still gentiles!

 

[Marooncat79]

Galatians 4:26
King James Version

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.