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Do Baptists believe in the Trinity?

Thinkingstuff

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Dust said:
You seem to have it backwards. The husband and wife are spiritually one flesh, but physically or naturally unequal. The Son and the Father are spiritually one, but naturally unequal.

When Adam said, "They shall be one flesh." Do you think he means that they will become physically one person? Of course not. They are spiritually one person. They are physically two persons, with the husband having authority over the wife.

When the Bridegroom (Christ) joins with his Bride (the Church), do you think they will physically all become one giant person? I am reminded of the alien monster in the movie Slither. No, they shall be of one spirit. But naturally, unequal.

"But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." 1 Cor 6:17
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body" 1 Cor 12:13
"For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." Eph 2:18
"[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling" Eph 4:4
"...stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel" Phil 1:27
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Watch less movies. Study more theology.
Jesus declares that He will judgeall men Matthew 25:31.
Jesus says he is the Lord of Angels, who follow His command Matthew 24:31.
Jesus approves the confession of Peter when he recognizes Him as the Son of God Matthew 16:16-17.
Finally, before Caiphas Jesus declares to be the Son of God. He is instantly declared by the high priest to be guilty of blasphemy Luke 22:66-71.

The Holy Spirit possesses omniscience and reveals to the Church mysteries known only to God 1 Corinthians 2:10
The Holy Spirit gives Charismata 1 Corinthians 12:11
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The Holy Spirit is the giver of supernatural life 2 Corinthians 3:8
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The Holy Spirit dwells in the Church and in the souls of individual men, as in His temple Romans 8:9-11; 1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19
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The work of justification and sanctification is attributed to Him 1 Corinthians 6:11; Romans 15:16 just as in other passages the same operations are attributed to Christ 1 Corinthians 1:2; Galatians 2:17
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D

Dust

New Member
Matt Black said:
"Ho, ho, ho! Arius has been a naughty boy this year, so no presents for him!"

Dust, what do you make of Jesus' assertion in John 8:58, or Thomas' confession of faith in John 20:28?
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John 8:58 - Jesus said "I am" which is the Greek ego eimi. It is used constantly in the New Testament as a typical expression of "I am this" or "I am that."

The Father's title he gives to Moses is YHWH or Yahweh, which mean "I who shall be" in the future tense (not present tense). The septuagint translated the Lord's name (which is translated LORD in the English version of the Hebrew) to theos in the New Testament. Yah or Yahweh or El or Eloa are the titles of God (also of the angels).

If Christ was saying he was the Diety, he would say the same words YHWH, which the septuagint would translate to theos (like they do with everything else).

The true meaning in context: Christ was saying that he was spoken of even before Abraham. He spiritually existed, but did not physically exist in reality. He is there in shadow and spoken word (logos). Several times in John we can see Christ pointing out that he is talked about in Scripture. This is emphasized in the writings of Paul concerning the mystery revealed to the world.

Now seeing how angels are of one spirit with the Deity, they can bear His titles. Most people think that God spoke to Moses personally. He did not.

"And the angel (malak) of the LORD (Yahweh) appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed." Exo 3:2

"And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush." Acts 7:30

It was an angel speaking in the place of God or, in other words, an angelic manifestation saying the word YHWH.

If an angel can bear the title of God, how much more the son who in "the fulness of the Deity dwelleth" within, the perfect manifestation of the Father in the flesh? Thus, we have John 20:28. Incidentally, we do not know which title Thomas said. He could have said El, Eloha, Yah, Yahweh, Adonai, etc. The septuagint robbed us of the word and translated all titles to theos. El or Elohim are titles often used of the angels and means mighty one(s). The Father is the El of the Elohim (translated God of gods) which means the Mightiest of the Mighty Ones (angels).

The full title of God most used is Yahweh Elohim (translated LORD God), which literally means He who shall be the Mighty Ones. God's purpose is revealed in His title. God will be of one spirit with the saints redeemed through Christ Jesus.
 
A

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dust, can you explain to us your understanding of the Godhead? It would be best to hear from your hand what you believe rather than try to guess.
 
A

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dust said:
John 8:58 - Jesus said "I am" which is the Greek ego eimi. It is used constantly in the New Testament as a typical expression of "I am this" or "I am that."

The Father's title he gives to Moses is YHWH or Yahweh, which mean "I who shall be" in the future tense (not present tense). The septuagint translated the Lord's name (which is translated LORD in the English version of the Hebrew) to theos in the New Testament. Yah or Yahweh or El or Eloa are the titles of God (also of the angels).

If Christ was saying he was the Diety, he would say the same words YHWH, which the septuagint would translate to theos (like they do with everything else).

The true meaning in context: Christ was saying that he was spoken of even before Abraham. He spiritually existed, but did not physically exist in reality. He is there in shadow and spoken word (logos). Several times in John we can see Christ pointing out that he is talked about in Scripture. This is emphasized in the writings of Paul concerning the mystery revealed to the world.

Now seeing how angels are of one spirit with the Deity, they can bear His titles. Most people think that God spoke to Moses personally. He did not.

"And the angel (malak) of the LORD (Yahweh) appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed." Exo 3:2

"And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush." Acts 7:30

It was an angel speaking in the place of God or, in other words, an angelic manifestation saying the word YHWH.

If an angel can bear the title of God, how much more the son who in "the fulness of the Deity dwelleth" within, the perfect manifestation of the Father in the flesh? Thus, we have John 20:28. Incidentally, we do not know which title Thomas said. He could have said El, Eloha, Yah, Yahweh, Adonai, etc. The septuagint robbed us of the word and translated all titles to theos. El or Elohim are titles often used of the angels and means mighty one(s). The Father is the El of the Elohim (translated God of gods) which means the Mightiest of the Mighty Ones (angels).

The full title of God most used is Yahweh Elohim (translated LORD God), which literally means He who shall be the Mighty Ones. God's purpose is revealed in His title. God will be of one spirit with the saints redeemed through Christ Jesus.
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OK - Looking at your profile, you call yourself "Christadelphian" and that your statement of salvation is that "it is never promised". Is this correct?

As a Christadelphian, you do not believe in man having a soul that is immortal, that there is no such thing as hell, that there is no person known as the Devil, and that salvation is conditional on obedience?
 
H

Havensdad

New Member
If Jesus is not truly God, why did he accept worship?

Joh 9:38 He said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
Joh 9:39 Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind."


Why did Jesus not rebuke the man, as the angel did here...

Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Notice what the angel said: worship God which is singular. He did not say "worship God and Jesus", nor did he say "worship Gods"

Jesus was either Truly God, who made the Heaven and Earth, uncreated and eternal, and Lord of all, or He was a blasphemer that took worship, when Scripture clearly says...


"'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"
 
R

rbell

Active Member
Wow.

Dust, you can't make up theology from what you think Greek might usually mean.

Read John 1, and ditch your heresy.
 
D

Dust

New Member
annsni said:
Dust, can you explain to us your understanding of the Godhead? It would be best to hear from your hand what you believe rather than try to guess.
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The Father is the supreme being who sustains all things through His power or spirit (Heb 11:3). Because He cannot look upon man, angels manifest His will throughout scripture; hence why they are called messengers. The reason the Father cannot look upon man is because all flesh shall die before Him (Ex 33:20).

"Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen." 1 Tim 6:16

No man has ever seen God except the Son of Man who sits at the right hand of power (John 1:18; 1 John 4:12).

The Son is the perfect manifestation of God in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16), much like the angels in their celestial bodies, fulfilling the Law without sin, sacrificed himself as both a cleansing for his flesh and the payment for his bride (bride price as custom of the Israelites). And so, Christ who had not sinned was not contained by death and rose on the third day being saved and thus, providing the way to salvation.

He is the promised one to Eve, to Abraham, and to David. It is through marriage on the last day, that those who are found worthy by the Judgement of Christ (those who are presented as a chaste virgin) shall marry and become spiritually one flesh with Christ, being saved through his salvation and being justified through his justification. Christ has the authority to judge whom he shall marry and whom he shall not.

Christ and his bride (the saints) shall conquer the world (the inheritance of Abraham) and establish a Kingdom (the throne of David) based in Jerusalem and shall reign for a thousand years. After which, Christ shall present the perfect Kingdom to the Father and reunite man with God.

Today, he acts as a mediator giving intercession for the saints. Paul's letter to the Hebrews explicates manifestation, intercession, etc.

The Holy Spirit is the "separate" power of God used for specific purposes which is usually unnatural. He gives this power at will to his servants. There is "one spirit" or power of God, but this is a section of His power which he uses for whatever purpose. Christ was given full use of this power at his baptism and then went into the wilderness to be tested. God speaks to the apostles and prophets through the Holy Spirit. The apostles also see visions while in the spirit. Elijah, Elisha, Samson, Christ, etc. all were given incredible power through this spirit.
 
M

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dust said:
John 8:58 - Jesus said "I am" which is the Greek ego eimi. It is used constantly in the New Testament as a typical expression of "I am this" or "I am that."

The Father's title he gives to Moses is YHWH or Yahweh, which mean "I who shall be" in the future tense (not present tense). The septuagint translated the Lord's name (which is translated LORD in the English version of the Hebrew) to theos in the New Testament. Yah or Yahweh or El or Eloa are the titles of God (also of the angels).

If Christ was saying he was the Diety, he would say the same words YHWH, which the septuagint would translate to theos (like they do with everything else).
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Then explain why the Jews picked up stones to execute Him for blasphemy? I think the meaning of what He said was pretty clear to Him - why isn't it to you?

And you haven't dealt with Thomas' confession...
 
L

lori4dogs

New Member
Matt Black said:
Then explain why the Jews picked up stones to execute Him for blasphemy? I think the meaning of what He said was pretty clear to Him - why isn't it to you?

And you haven't dealt with Thomas' confession...
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JW's were visiting with me a while back and I asked the same questions. They said they would have to get back to me with an answer. Haven't heard from them since.
 
J

JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Thinkingstuff said:
Hey at least I study what about you? Just sit around talking armchair theology with your pals?
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LOL...

No, actually, I study the Bible daily in preparation to preach and teach, not including my own personal study. And then, there was all of the study required to graduate.
 
J

JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dust, what is your take on Hebrews 1:8?

Also, who do you believe Isaiah 9:6 is referring to?

Do you worship Jesus Christ?
 
J

JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Johnv said:
Okay, okay, let's not make any implications of him not worshipping Christ. A person is still in the pool, even if his beliefs are off the deep end.
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Nobody's implying anything, nor did anybody say anything about being in or out of some "pool". I'm just asking him a simple question. Please allow him to speak for himself.
 
H

Havensdad

New Member
Johnv said:
Okay, okay, let's not make any implications of him not worshipping Christ. A person is still in the pool, even if his beliefs are off the deep end.
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Not sure a person who denies the full deity of Christ is "In the pool." Think they are probably asleep on the sidelines in a lounge chair.
 
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