Do the aborted and babies that die . . .

[37818]

Does God visit the iniquity of the fathers unto the children of the 3rd and 4th generations of those who hate him?

That does not change what God excludes.
Deuteronomy 24:16, "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
Ezekiel 18:20, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

 

[37818]

So where does 12 years old come in?

Often repeated notion. Where it comes from is Jairus daughter was 12 years old, Luke 8:42, and she is called a little daughter, Mark 5:23, which is in the same sense a little child which Jesus says, Mark 10:14, ". . . little children . . .,for such is the kingdom of God. . . ." Equivalent to being our 11 years old. A child was reckond as one when thy are born.

 

[Titus Tarnum]

Does God visit the iniquity of the fathers unto the children of the 3rd and 4th generations of those who hate him?

But if you are righteous God won't punish you for your father's sin
Ezk 18:17
Who has withdrawn his hand from the poor
And not received usury or increase,
But has executed My judgments
And walked in My statutes—
He shall not die for the iniquity of his father;
He shall surely live!

But I think we are missing the point that, whether baby in the womb or 90 year old sinner, being a descendant the first Adam doesn't get you into Heaven so you need to be adopted into the second Adam. To me the question is can God give a person grace, faith and the Holy Spirit and adopt a baby after they die? Some people say that original sin makes us unacceptable which I agree with but why does death stop God from witnessing to a baby?

1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

If God preached to these souls for judgment why couldn't He preach to a martyred child for salvation ?

 

[Reformed1689]

Often repeated notion. Where it comes from is Jairus daughter was 12 years old, Luke 8:42, and she is called a little daughter, Mark 5:23, which is in the same sense a little child which Jesus says, Mark 10:14, ". . . little children . . .,for such is the kingdom of God. . . ." Equivalent to being our 11 years old. A child was reckond as one when thy are born.

But where is the indication that the 12 year old WASN'T A BELIEVER?

 

[Reformed1689]

You do not agree with Reformed Theology on Total Depravity or as stated in the 5 points of Calvinism.

No, I don't agree with your understanding of it. There are MANY Calvinists that believe it is simultaneous.

 

[37818]

People make the bible say what they would have it to say. But Paul says God makes from the same lump vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath before they are born or ever made a single choice.

The sole reason the lost will perish is their name will not be in the book of life, Revelation 20:15.

Why the prerequisite to being a child, Mark 10:15? John 3:4.

 

[37818]

But where is the indication that the 12 year old WASN'T A BELIEVER?

How about a 4 year old being a believer. Or a new born?

. . . little children . . . . Mark 10:14-15. John 3:4.

 

[37818]

1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

They were already sons of God, Genesis 6:4.

 

[37818]

Why the prerequisite to be a child, Mark 10:14-15? John 3:4.

 

[Reformed1689]

How about a 4 year old being a believer. Or a new born?

. . . little children . . . . Mark 10:14-15. John 3:4.

Are you saying a 4 year old can't be a believer? I think you are reading something into Christ's words that are not there. By the way, yes, four year olds can be believers. I've seen it. I was saved at 5.

 

[utilyan]

Are you saying a 4 year old can't be a believer? I think you are reading something into Christ's words that are not there. By the way, yes, four year olds can be believers. I've seen it. I was saved at 5.

^Proof reformed Ordo Salutis is false

 

[kyredneck]

I believe original sin sends most of them to Hell.

I believe the atonement has that covered for the little babies.

 

[utilyan]

I heard God was a Good guy.

Not a evil melomaniac who takes pleasure and glory at the rape of children but sends babies to hell for his sadistic "glory", not that any of you "courageous" souls would pushover to a evil "god" that way.

 

[37818]

Are you saying a 4 year old can't be a believer?

No. Not what I said.

 

[tyndale1946]

I voted no and I am reminded that is Gods business and none of mine... Brother Glen

 

[Reformed1689]

No. Not what I said.

Ok misunderstood you then.

 

[Iconoclast]

3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word. ( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

 

[37818]

Bear in mind the written word of God is explicitly silent on how and why names are in the book. Names are either blotted out of the book or never blotted out. Exodus 32;33, Psalms 69:27-28 or Revelation 3:5.

The sole reason in the Judgement people perish are names are not written in the book.

The children are conceived with the sin nature.
In order for the aborted and children who die too young to believe not to perish, their names would not have been blotted out.

Mark 10:15, John 3:3-4.

 

[37818]

3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word. ( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

That is an interpertation.

Mark 10:15, John 3:4, Mark 10:14.

 

[37818]

. . . so you need to be adopted into the second Adam. . . .

One has to be a son before one can be placed as a son, 1 John 3:2, Romans 8:23, Philippians 3:20-21.