Do we truly love the brethren?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Guess That John Wesley and George Whitefield would disagree with you here on this, as that they BOTH were saved by same Gospel and had SAME Lord, just disagreed on exactly how God chose to save them!

Yes & Ole George always thought Ole Johnny boy at best muttled & thats a very nice way of saying messed up! Still they were always brothers in Christ. Both had been born again & both put Christ 1st as their Lord & Savior. They both however had some sort of systematic doctrines that they stood by & both had HS visitations above and beyond their regeneration experiences that they shared with one another. If Whitefield had the 5 points of Calvinism as referable then Wesley also had his 5 points of Arminism (I am not sure anyone has ever gone thru them in this board). Lastly, both were Methodists (yes there was a Calvinistic branch of Methodism)......so there was always a commonality between the two men.

 

[JesusFan]

Yes & Ole George always thought Ole Johnny boy at best muttled & thats a very nice way of saying messed up! Still they were always brothers in Christ. Both had been born again & both put Christ 1st as their Lord & Savior. They both however had some sort of systematic doctrines that they stood by & both had HS visitations above and beyond their regeneration experiences that they shared with one another. If Whitefield had the 5 points of Calvinism as referable then Wesley also had his 5 points of Arminism (I am not sure anyone has ever gone thru them in this board). Lastly, both were Methodists (yes there was a Calvinistic branch of Methodism)......so there was always a commonality between the two men.

maybe they understood had SAME Lord and salvation, agreed in Essentials, and showed just How to disagree on non essentials than?

 

[psalms109:31]

is this the calvin accused so many times of being "heartless and cruel" with his views on God?

John Calvin is not what some people claim him to be.

I don't want to throw this thread off track so here is a link, have you read this?

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=71775&highlight=calvin

 

[John of Japan]

Define Fundamentalist? Like is Dr Bob a Fundamentalist? Is Jim 1999?

I can't speak for them. As for me, I am an independent Baptist Fundamentalist, one who not only believes the fundamentals of the faith but defends them.

Or is the Fundamentalist like a pastor who tells my brother that he is never to speak to a Calvinist because they're of the devil & their own love for brethren stops where the brethren is an absolutist in the Doctrine of Grace, because thats who I confided in you privately about that I was having a problem with. Guess you will have to define what you mean.

"Confided"? Is that what you call it? You never asked me what I thought of the situation, never gave me a chance to respond. You just got mad and said something I can't repeat here (a word not allowed by BB rules). Then you told me we couldn't continue the conversation when I rebuked the word you used. I hope you've grown past that now.

For the record, I would never act as that pastor did. Simply hearing your account (without knowing his side of it), he is dead wrong.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I can't speak for them. As for me, I am an independent Baptist Fundamentalist, one who not only believes the fundamentals of the faith but defends them.
"Confided"? Is that what you call it? You never asked me what I thought of the situation, never gave me a chance to respond. You just got mad and said something I can't repeat here (a word not allowed by BB rules). Then you told me we couldn't continue the conversation when I rebuked the word you used. I hope you've grown past that now.

For the record, I would never act as that pastor did. Simply hearing your account (without knowing his side of it), he is dead wrong.

LOl....you must live a very sheltered life if I offended you by any words I used but my abject apologies for it since it obviously did.

As for Fundamentalist, if you resemble this individual which you tell me you do not then yes I would have been very disagreeable but you saw the tenor of my question today...do you consider gentlemen like Bob & Jim Fundamentalists? By far & away I am not disagreeable to them & I rather respect them & even on on occasion ask their advise. I hope that addresses your question.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I'm an historic fundamentalist - holding to the fundamentals of the faith and defended them against liberalism, modernism and godless evolution.

The fundamentalist "movement" is long dying/dead, but doesn't stop me from identifying and labeling with it. Sadly, the name has been usurped by the pathetic crowd that is trying to redefine the fundamentals (adding KJV only to it, or anti-calvinism to it or a host of other hylsish false teaching or practice).

But I will not allow them to win. I still hold to the name "Baptist" too, although in my city 18 of 22 "Baptist" churches would not see me in the pews. They have a name that they live, but are dead.

 

[John of Japan]

LOl....you must live a very sheltered life if I offended you by any words I used but my abject apologies for it since it obviously did.

Sheltered life? I worked in a factory for four years to put myself through college, and have lived since 1981 in a totally heathen land, 99% non Christian. Plus I'm a pastor who has counselled drug addicts, ex-cons, adulterers, schizophrenics, and many others. I think I've seen and heard more wickedness than most lost Americans.

Basically, I was not offended, since I knew you not at all at the time, but thank you for the apology anyway. What happened was that (1) a picture was formed in my mind of your character that still lingers. Do you really want to leave that kind of impression in people's minds? (2) I rebuked your use of that word and you rejected the rebuke completely. No skin off my nose. It hurt you, not me.

I believe strongly in Biblical rebuke--and that is not just when I've been offended. If you rebuke a wise man he will love you, the Bible says. But by that standard half the people on the BB are not wise.

As for Fundamentalist, if you resemble this individual which you tell me you do not then yes I would have been very disagreeable but you saw the tenor of my question today...do you consider gentlemen like Bob & Jim Fundamentalists? By far & away I am not disagreeable to them & I rather respect them & even on on occasion ask their advise. I hope that addresses your question.

Once again, I don't presume to speak for others. I do see that Dr. Bob posts that he calls himself a Fundamentalist, as I thought. I know that Brother Jim has an excellent history in the past and knew personally some big time fundamentalists back in the day. I respect him much for his long service for Christ, but as for whether or not he currently calls himself a Fundamentalist you'll have to ask him.

I know a website that has over 10,000 independent Baptist churches listed. I've been in every kind of IFB churches, and there are many kinds. It's ignorant to look at one IFB church and label all the other 9,999+ churches as being similar. Did you know, for example, that there is an IFB seminary in Detroit that is Calvinist, though most aren't?

 

[Luke2427]

I believe strongly in Biblical rebuke--and that is not just when I've been offended. If you rebuke a wise man he will love you, the Bible says. But by that standard half the people on the BB are not wise.

That's only if the rebuke is warranted. Ignorant rebuke or rebuke founded in error does not produce the effect that the text to which you are referring enunciates.

I do not know what word EWF used but if you were nit picking or riding a high horse or jostling for a position on the moral high ground to make yourself appear and feel more mature or more spiritual- then of course it should not make him love you.

I will say that you, like me, have your own particular set of faults and, it is my opinion based upon my experience with you that it is indeed your tendency to try to make yourself appear very mature or very spiritual or very humble. Some try for a "holier-than thou" and some try for a "humbler-than thou". I think sometimes you might try for both. That is just your particular weakness just like I have mine that you are quick and regular to point out.

Once again, I don't presume to speak for others. I do see that Dr. Bob posts that he calls himself a Fundamentalist, as I thought. I know that Brother Jim has an excellent history in the past and knew personally some big time fundamentalists back in the day. I respect him much for his long service for Christ, but as for whether or not he currently calls himself a Fundamentalist you'll have to ask him.

Do you think that there are ANY Southern Baptists who are fundamentalists?

Do you think that Calvinists can be fundamentalists?

Do you think that MOST of fundamentalism is found among the Independent Baptists?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sheltered life? I worked in a factory for four years to put myself through college, and have lived since 1981 in a totally heathen land, 99% non Christian. Plus I'm a pastor who has counselled drug addicts, ex-cons, adulterers, schizophrenics, and many others. I think I've seen and heard more wickedness than most lost Americans.

Basically, I was not offended, since I knew you not at all at the time, but thank you for the apology anyway. What happened was that (1) a picture was formed in my mind of your character that still lingers. Do you really want to leave that kind of impression in people's minds? (2) I rebuked your use of that word and you rejected the rebuke completely. No skin off my nose. It hurt you, not me.

I believe strongly in Biblical rebuke--and that is not just when I've been offended. If you rebuke a wise man he will love you, the Bible says. But by that standard half the people on the BB are not wise.
Once again, I don't presume to speak for others. I do see that Dr. Bob posts that he calls himself a Fundamentalist, as I thought. I know that Brother Jim has an excellent history in the past and knew personally some big time fundamentalists back in the day. I respect him much for his long service for Christ, but as for whether or not he currently calls himself a Fundamentalist you'll have to ask him.

I know a website that has over 10,000 independent Baptist churches listed. I've been in every kind of IFB churches, and there are many kinds. It's ignorant to look at one IFB church and label all the other 9,999+ churches as being similar. Did you know, for example, that there is an IFB seminary in Detroit that is Calvinist, though most aren't?

As I have said before, I have a brother who considers himself a Fundi & since he has modified his theology to Calvinism, he is much more tolerable. I am trying to get him to convert completely to Primitive Baptist, but he's hesitant & as for me I stand with the Old Schoolers but that doesnt mean I dont consider you one of the brethren. Do I care what you think about me, honestly no...I couldn't care less. Personally Im not fond of you either. But Im sure God has a place for you & right now its Japan....fine by me...distance can be a good thing.:thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm an historic fundamentalist - holding to the fundamentals of the faith and defended them against liberalism, modernism and godless evolution.

The fundamentalist "movement" is long dying/dead, but doesn't stop me from identifying and labeling with it. Sadly, the name has been usurped by the pathetic crowd that is trying to redefine the fundamentals (adding KJV only to it, or anti-calvinism to it or a host of other hylsish false teaching or practice).

But I will not allow them to win. I still hold to the name "Baptist" too, although in my city 18 of 22 "Baptist" churches would not see me in the pews. They have a name that they live, but are dead.

God Bless you.....Amen:thumbs:

 

[Rippon]

Do I care what you think about me, honestly no...I couldn't care less. Personally Im not fond of you either. But Im sure God has a place for you & right now its Japan....fine by me...distance can be a good thing.:thumbs:

EW&F,you quoted all of JoJ's post and then proceeded to say the above? Why? His post clarified things for you in a nice manner. Why have you responded the way you have?

 

[Rippon]

I do not know what word EWF used but if you were nit picking or riding a high horse or jostling for a position on the moral high ground to make yourself appear and feel more mature or more spiritual-

it is indeed your tendency to try to make yourself appear very mature or very spiritual or very humble. Some try for a "holier-than thou" and some try for a "humbler-than thou". I think sometimes you might try for both.

Luke,what kind of a Christian pastor are you? Why do you have the attitude you project on the pages of the BB? Please reconsider your words and then do what is right. You're heading down the wrong road if you don't.

 

[Rippon]

Do you think that Calvinists can be fundamentalists?

You didn't read his post carefully. He made mention of the IFB's Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke,what kind of a Christian pastor are you? Why do you have the attitude you project on the pages of the BB? Please reconsider your words and then do what is right. You're heading down the wrong road if you don't.

Rippon, with due respect, it is not inappropriate to point out to John his faults no more than it is for you to point out mine.

It is no more a crime to point out one's position on his high horse than it is to ride one.

John has oft corrected my faults- and I do not throttle his right to do so- nor do I spurn his qualifications as a pastor for so doing as you do here against me.

If you are going to rebuke people for rebuking people then rebuke John for there is no lack in his exchanges with those who debate him to do so- and then, to be consistent, you must rebuke yourself.

 

[John of Japan]

Thank you Rippon for your comments.

I see no further place for me on this thread, seeing the direction it ended up. Partly my fault--sorry folks, sorry. EWF. :jesus:

 

[Luke2427]

Thank you Rippon for your comments.

I see no further place for me on this thread, seeing the direction it ended up. Partly my fault--sorry folks, sorry. EWF. :jesus:

What are you thanking him for John? For rebuking us?

He had very little to say about you.

The gist of his posts were rebukes to me and EWF.

Are you thanking him for rebuking us for rebuking you???

 

[preacher4truth]

Come on EWF, no need to get twisted, especially on a thread about love! :laugh:

John is simply mentioning the reputation you have left in his mind. To be honest, you seem a bit bitter about it, relax and get it right with you two, afterall, look at your thread title and maybe "Someone" is trying to let you know something??

For the record I also am a fundamentalist in belief, defending the truth against the onslaught of residual higher criticism, and liberal theology.

Basically these 5 tenets are defended, which were attacked:

1) The inspiration of the Bible by the Holy Spirit and the inerrancy of Scripture as a result of this.
2) The virgin birth of Christ.
3) The belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin.
4) The bodily resurrection of Christ.
5) The historical reality of Christ's miracles.

There were a series of books written c. 1900 entitled "The Fundamentals" published by R. A. Torrey and A. C. Dixon around 1910 or so as a reaction and refutation, and apology for the above truths.

I just don't adhere to the KJV part, the women in pants part, no movies, no swimming publicly, no men in shorts, and other things they call separation which is really a form of "legalism" (not technically legalism, but people have named it this) that many fundamentalists believe are fundamental to their faith.

- Peace

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

John Calvin is not what some people claim him to be.

I don't want to throw this thread off track so here is a link, have you read this?

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=71775&highlight=calvin

Why do you feel compelled to jump in here & continue a thread on Calvin that long ago ended? Unfathomable!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thank you Rippon for your comments.

I see no further place for me on this thread, seeing the direction it ended up. Partly my fault--sorry folks, sorry. EWF. :jesus:

Listen brother, I really didnt mean this to get out of hand. You & I both believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord & savior. Let that be our commonality & brotherhood. 1 John 5 "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."

Blessings to you in your ministry.

 

[John Toppass]

JoJ,

You have my prayers and respect, I see your true love for brethren and even to apologize to those who attacked you unprovoked.