Do we truly love the brethren?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

JoJ,

You have my prayers and respect, I see your true love for brethren and even to apologize to those who attacked you unprovoked.

Unprovoked....:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Robert Snow]

But I will not allow them to win. I still hold to the name "Baptist" too, although in my city 18 of 22 "Baptist" churches would not see me in the pews. They have a name that they live, but are dead.

I bet they say the same thing about your Calvinistic belief.

So the real question is, who is correct, you are them?

As for me, I was saved in one of those IFB churches. Looking back, I wouldn't trade one day of the love and joy we had then for all the Calvinistic doctrine printed in the whole world.

Odd thing though, I don't remember any pastor or preacher ever even hinting that these Calvinistic brethren were anything but other Christians who's beliefs were in error. I don't every remember anyone questioning their salvation, even in a back-handed manner often found here on the BB by Calvinists toward other believers with whom they disagree.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I bet they say the same thing about your Calvinistic belief.

So the real question is, who is correct, you are them?

As for me, I was saved in one of those IFB churches. Looking back, I wouldn't trade one day of the love and joy we had then for all the Calvinistic doctrine printed in the whole world.

Odd thing though, I don't remember any pastor or preacher ever even hinting that these Calvinistic brethren were anything but other Christians who's beliefs were in error. I don't every remember anyone questioning their salvation, even in a back-handed manner often found here on the BB by Calvinists toward other believers with whom they disagree.

Robert....with all do respect do you really seriously think that Calvinistic churches are unloving? Ive gone to churches back in PA where my folks are from & thats all I see is love. What church do you go to now? Let me ask you, If I were to go to an IFB church (not one that is Calvinistic) & tell them Im a Calvinist, would I be greeted with love?

 

[Tom Bryant]

Guys,
Can't both sides be better than this as Christians. Non-Christians are not going to read this. But other Christians will and wonder how we could all get so bitter and be scathing.

We are all turning the doctrine of salvation that ought to make us stand amazed at God's love and grace into something we attack each other over.

I am as guilty of this as anyone. But I am reminded of Psalm 119:63: "I am a companion of all those who fear thee. and of those who keep Your precepts."

end of rant

 

[quantumfaith]

Guys,
Can't both sides be better than this as Christians. Non-Christians are not going to read this. But other Christians will and wonder how we could all get so bitter and be scathing.

We are all turning the doctrine of salvation that ought to make us stand amazed at God's love and grace into something we attack each other over.

I am as guilty of this as anyone. But I am reminded of Psalm 119:63: "I am a companion of all those who fear thee. and of those who keep Your precepts."

end of rant

:thumbsup::thumbsup::smilewinkgrin:

 

[Robert Snow]

Robert....with all do respect do you really seriously think that Calvinistic churches are unloving? Ive gone to churches back in PA where my folks are from & thats all I see is love. What church do you go to now? Let me ask you, If I were to go to an IFB church (not one that is Calvinistic) & tell them I'm a Calvinist, would I be greeted with love?

To me, it's not that one church or another is loving or unloving. Obviously, you can find examples of both among Calvinistic and non-Calvinistic churches. Just like you will find much diversity among both camps when it comes to describing what they believe.

Look at Westboro Baptist church, they are a Primitive Baptist church. However, I certainly don't think they represent all Primitive Baptist churches, in fact, I doubt there are any other Primitive Baptist who would agree with Westboro.

Yet, it is difficult to find a posting by Dr. Bob where he doesn't tie IFB churches in with men like Jack Hyles.

Oh and, if you had visited our church and mentioned you were a Calvinist, you would still have been treated with love and respect. I know that doesn't speak for all IFB churches, but it does for ours.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Guys,
Can't both sides be better than this as Christians. Non-Christians are not going to read this. But other Christians will and wonder how we could all get so bitter and be scathing.

We are all turning the doctrine of salvation that ought to make us stand amazed at God's love and grace into something we attack each other over.

I am as guilty of this as anyone. But I am reminded of Psalm 119:63: "I am a companion of all those who fear thee. and of those who keep Your precepts."

end of rant

you know what bothers me though Tom......I'm told im in error. Im told (& I wont say who) if I go an SBC or IFB Church that I will be told to sit down & shut up cause Im in error. I see a guy, so riled up by the name Calvin that he calls him a Murderer & a Thug. OK, my mother would always say dont talk religion, race or politics cause that is a guarantee that your going to start a fight. So where are we with all this? do we see past it or do we continue to hate? I will be the 1st one to tell you that often Ive joined in on these food fights & that there are some on here I dont like. But I also dont hate them because of a religious or theological difference of opinion & I recognize them as brothers & sisters in Christ. Listen I can understand the anger of almost every one in here & none of these acts of kindness and/or hatred is lost on me. Perhaps we have to accept that the greatest gift God provides us all is a common belief in Christ as lord & savior AND a competition in theological beliefs that puts each to its mettle & cautions each to tolerance.

 

[Arbo]

Guys,
Can't both sides be better than this as Christians. Non-Christians are not going to read this. But other Christians will and wonder how we could all get so bitter and be scathing.

We are all turning the doctrine of salvation that ought to make us stand amazed at God's love and grace into something we attack each other over.

Amen.:thumbsup:

 

[Tom Bryant]

you know what bothers me though Tom......I'm told im in error. Im told (& I wont say who) if I go an SBC or IFB Church that I will be told to sit down & shut up cause Im in error. I see a guy, so riled up by the name Calvin that he calls him a Murderer & a Thug. OK, my mother would always say dont talk religion, race or politics cause that is a guarantee that your going to start a fight. So where are we with all this? do we see past it or do we continue to hate? I will be the 1st one to tell you that often Ive joined in on these food fights & that there are some on here I dont like. But I also dont hate them because of a religious or theological difference of opinion & I recognize them as brothers & sisters in Christ. Listen I can understand the anger of almost every one in here & none of these acts of kindness and/or hatred is lost on me. Perhaps we have to accept that the greatest gift God provides us all is a common belief in Christ as lord & savior AND a competition in theological beliefs that puts each to its mettle & cautions each to tolerance.

There are going to be firebrands on both sides. It is intimated on here that non-Calvinists are that way because we are not as intellectual or as spiritual as the Calvinists. The one who brands Calvin and the other reformers as murderers and thugs thinks he's the intellectual of the group.

We all act like so spiritual because we think we have knowledge that the other side doesn't have. And we all know what the Bible says knowledge does to us.

But does any Calvinist really believe that non-Cals is anything other than God's grace apart from any kind of work on our part? We don't, but I bet there are people who think that. But those guys who believe that will never believe we don't see faith as a work. We are simply believing in what God said.

Does any Non-Cal really believe that God is the author of evil or that God's sovereignty removes responsibility? I know you don't. But there are guys on my side who will never understand that and will slice and dice the statements of Calvinists to show that you and others do.

Those who are saved by God's grace alone through faith alone ought to act like they're brothers and sisters in Christ. And leave the crackpots to argue among themselves.

end of pipe dream :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There are going to be firebrands on both sides. It is intimated on here that non-Calvinists are that way because we are not as intellectual or as spiritual as the Calvinists. The one who brands Calvin and the other reformers as murderers and thugs thinks he's the intellectual of the group.

We all act like so spiritual because we think we have knowledge that the other side doesn't have. And we all know what the Bible says knowledge does to us.

But does any Calvinist really believe that non-Cals is anything other than God's grace apart from any kind of work on our part? We don't, but I bet there are people who think that. But those guys who believe that will never believe we don't see faith as a work. We are simply believing in what God said.

Does any Non-Cal really believe that God is the author of evil or that God's sovereignty removes responsibility? I know you don't. But there are guys on my side who will never understand that and will slice and dice the statements of Calvinists to show that you and others do.

Those who are saved by God's grace alone through faith alone ought to act like they're brothers and sisters in Christ. And leave the crackpots to argue among themselves.

end of pipe dream :smilewinkgrin:

Many of my stalwart brothers on both side have gone away. Each time I speak to them they all claim they have had enough....Ive lost many brothers to this (at an alarming rate I might add). Men I was learning from....perhaps its my turn to leave too....basically Im not learning anymore & this infighting isnt producing anything but hatred.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Many of my stalwart brothers on both side have gone away. Each time I speak to them they all claim they have had enough....Ive lost many brothers to this (at an alarming rate I might add). Men I was learning from....perhaps its my turn to leave too....basically Im not learning anymore & this infighting isnt producing anything but hatred.

I understand, Ihave felt this way and still do But, please don't leave.

Maybe if we don't post on those threads that attack, it will get better.

In a few weeks, FL is going to have a Sales Tax free weekend. Maybe we could have a "Soteriological Free Week" here except to praise God for his salvation.

 

[psalms109:31]

Error

We all in error in one point. I tell my self why did I do that, why did I say that. I praise God everyday that my dependance is not me for salvation, but Jesus. That He loves me when others don't, even my own brothers and sisters.

So even when I am not being encouraged by my brothers and sister to continue trying to do the right things through the encouragement of Christ and His love for me I continue even after failures.

Jesus is with us always, even when others are not.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I understand, Ihave felt this way and still do But, please don't leave.

Maybe if we don't post on those threads that attack, it will get better.

In a few weeks, FL is going to have a Sales Tax free weekend. Maybe we could have a "Soteriological Free Week" here except to praise God for his salvation.

Well Tom, thank you but I need to weigh what else I can be doing. I am struggling to start a church in NJ but I just keep spinning my wheels & digging myself in deeper though there is a calling for me to do it. Perhaps God wants me to study the word much more (Seems like every time I do then I learn sooo much more). Anyway the Lord always tells you Not to Quit ....James 1:12 so I need to spend time in prayer.

I guess if we cant have genuine love then tolerance is not so bad....till the next food fight erupts.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I guess if we cant have genuine love then tolerance is not so bad....till the next food fight erupts.

If it's a food fight, make sure you invite me!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If it's a food fight, make sure you invite me!

FOUND THIS IN A PB Website

However, it is not our purpose to incite hatred or persecution against any man or sector of society. Since our Baptist ancestry was greatly persecuted, and since we are also falsely accused and ridiculed unto this day, conscience forbids that we should bring the same upon others. Instead, the scriptures command us that the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth (II Tim 2:24-25).

Accordingly, we recognize that love and charity are the first test of all that claims to be Christian (Mt 22:36-40, Jn 13:35, I Jn 2:9-11), and though we have all truth, we are but nothing without it (I Cor 13:2).

 

[Old Union Brother]

I too am considering leaving, as I was thinking about this thread the following verses came to mind

(Ecc 12:13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

(Ecc 12:14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Man oh man are we in trouble!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I too am considering leaving, as I was thinking about this thread the following verses came to mind



Man oh man are we in trouble!

Taking time to be on my knees brother What does it profit a man....

Maybe God is telling me something I need to get quiet ...nothing going to happen without Him anyway:jesus:

 

[dcorbett]

Yes, calvinists would be welcome in my IFB church..

I love all my Christian brothers and sisters....and I love the Lord God for saving my soul through the blood of the Lamb.

 

[convicted1]

Robert....with all do respect do you really seriously think that Calvinistic churches are unloving? Ive gone to churches back in PA where my folks are from & thats all I see is love. What church do you go to now? Let me ask you, If I were to go to an IFB church (not one that is Calvinistic) & tell them Im a Calvinist, would I be greeted with love?

Well, Brother EW&F, what I am about to say is the 100% truth. If you came to my church, though we are of the FW flavor, and I knew you were DoG, and any of the members made you feel unwelcome, then I would feel unwelcome there, too. We are Brothers in the Lord not by our doctrine, not anything of ourselves, but by the Grace of God, and the blood of the Lamb. There are many times when we need to take our doctrine(s), stick it in our back pocket, and just rejoice in the goodness of the Lord. But, if you were treated differently at my home church based on you being DoG, then I would ask for my letter, and take it somewhere's else. May God bless you with a blessed sunday in Him!! Love you, Brother!! :thumbsup::love2:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, Brother EW&F, what I am about to say is the 100% truth. If you came to my church, though we are of the FW flavor, and I knew you were DoG, and any of the members made you feel unwelcome, then I would feel unwelcome there, too. We are Brothers in the Lord not by our doctrine, not anything of ourselves, but by the Grace of God, and the blood of the Lamb. There are many times when we need to take our doctrine(s), stick it in our back pocket, and just rejoice in the goodness of the Lord. But, if you were treated differently at my home church based on you being DoG, then I would ask for my letter, and take it somewhere's else. May God bless you with a blessed sunday in Him!! Love you, Brother!! :thumbsup::love2:

But yet doctrine binds & defines & comforts.....it is our belief that it is taken directly from scripture & without it there is no church. your always welcome to visit with us but if the HS has not influenced you doctrinally....again which comes through His scripture, you would not be welcome to join. This may appear unloving but I will assure you it is very loving because you are now following scripture & you are now in accord with your brethren. This is why I say (and I think Bob agrees) it is difficult for both of us to fellowship with people who do not believe in DoG.....there is too much of a casem dividing us.