Do we truly love the brethren?

[quantumfaith]

But yet doctrine binds & defines & comforts.....it is our belief that it is taken directly from scripture & without it there is no church. your always welcome to visit with us but if the HS has not influenced you doctrinally....again which comes through His scripture, you would not be welcome to join. This may appear unloving but I will assure you it is very loving because you are now following scripture & you are now in accord with your brethren. This is why I say (and I think Bob agrees) it is difficult for both of us to fellowship with people who do not believe in DoG.....there is too much of a casem dividing us.

:tear::tear::tear:

 

[Bob Alkire]

But yet doctrine binds & defines & comforts.....it is our belief that it is taken directly from scripture & without it there is no church. your always welcome to visit with us but if the HS has not influenced you doctrinally....again which comes through His scripture, you would not be welcome to join. This may appear unloving but I will assure you it is very loving because you are now following scripture & you are now in accord with your brethren. .

I'm sure there has been some churches in the past that held this view. I was raised in a Presbyterian church which which was Calvinistic and went to a seminary which was of the same but if you believed in an orthodox soteriology you would be accepted. Why because most can explain their soteriolgy with Scripture, and we can be partly correct or wrong, we will find out when we get to haven.

This is why I say (and I think Bob agrees) it is difficult for both of us to fellowship with people who do not believe in DoG.....there is too much of a casem dividing us .

This is the part that has changed in my part of the world in the last 15 years or so. I have been in churches that have had folks with different soteriology than the pastor and worshiped and lived to God's glory. Now there seem to be a battle, if you aren't just like me.
Keep in mind most of us believe what the Scripture says, we disagree on the mechanics of how God carries it out.

I use to go to a lot of Presbyterian churches and Baptist churches and debate Calvinism, it was done so they had a better understanding of other views of soteriology , to see we were in accord on most and were brother and sisters in Christ. These debates were done in love, not to win or lose but to see and understand each other and I never saw the harsh talk or debate that I've seen at times on the BB. It is why for the most part I don't debate this often.
If one believes in the fundamentals of the faith, I can worship with them, break bread with them, all to the glory of God.

 

[preacher4truth]

But yet doctrine binds & defines & comforts.....it is our belief that it is taken directly from scripture & without it there is no church. your always welcome to visit with us but if the HS has not influenced you doctrinally....again which comes through His scripture, you would not be welcome to join. This may appear unloving but I will assure you it is very loving because you are now following scripture & you are now in accord with your brethren. This is why I say (and I think Bob agrees) it is difficult for both of us to fellowship with people who do not believe in DoG.....there is too much of a casem dividing us.

But what do the Scriptures teach about this?

Act 18:24 Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.
Act 18:25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;
Act 18:26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Act 18:27 And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace,
Act 18:28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

This Apollos wasn't refused fellowship because his doctrine wasn't perfect. He was taken under wing, as a brother who loved Jesus, and taught the things more perfectly. He was given fellowship, he wasn't denied fellowship.

Now if a brother were walking disorderly, sinfully &c then I think we have reason for disallowing fellowship.

- Peace

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

But what do the Scriptures teach about this?

Act 18:24 Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.
Act 18:25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;
Act 18:26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Act 18:27 And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace,
Act 18:28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

This Apollos wasn't refused fellowship because his doctrine wasn't perfect. He was taken under wing, as a brother who loved Jesus, and taught the things more perfectly. He was given fellowship, he wasn't denied fellowship.

Now if a brother were walking disorderly, sinfully &c then I think we have reason for disallowing fellowship.

- Peace

Why dont you just bottom line this? you have an agenda behind it...spit it out!

 

[preacher4truth]

Why dont you just bottom line this? you have an agenda behind it...spit it out!

Simmer down. I gave Biblical principle here, that alone is my agenda. Somehow you're taking this as a personal attack?

Discuss the Scriptural aspect and leave the paranoia at the door. If the Scriptures disagree with your creeds &c then throw them out in favor of truth.

 

[pinoybaptist]

But what do the Scriptures teach about this?

Act 18:24 Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.
Act 18:25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;
Act 18:26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Act 18:27 And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace,
Act 18:28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

This Apollos wasn't refused fellowship because his doctrine wasn't perfect. He was taken under wing, as a brother who loved Jesus, and taught the things more perfectly. He was given fellowship, he wasn't denied fellowship.

Now if a brother were walking disorderly, sinfully &c then I think we have reason for disallowing fellowship.

- Peace

If a brother, already a member of the church, were walking disorderly, sinfully, &c no fellowship will be disallowed IMMEDIATELY. Maybe you know this, maybe not, but I need to complete the statement.
The said brother will be prayed for by the church (if his disorderliness and sin is common knowledge to the church), after which the church will observe the rules of discipline provided for by its founder, culminating in disfellowship and being cut off from the church with the end in view of restoring the erring brother, and of accepting him back IF he repents and comes before the church in repentance.

If the sin and disorderliness is private and known only to very few in the church, then he will be dealt with discreetly with the purpose of preserving his/her and his/her family's integrity up to the point of discipline according to Scriptural guidelines, keeping the matter as privately as possible thus avoiding embarrassment for the member, and keeping the door to repentance and reconciliation open.

These are the details (at least in my PB neck of the woods) that we follow, patterned after the constitutional generality provided by the Lord in Scripture.

Now, as for a professing Christian wishing to join our church, and carrying his own doctrine, which we deem incomplete, or not compatible with what we believe and hold on to, as a church, and who DOES NOT accept the teaching, no church membership will be possible for him, neither will the fellowship be sweet (it will always be cracked because of doctrine).

When I joined the church here, I was willing to learn the Doctrine of Grace, which I have already accepted as Scriptural truth, and unlearn what was drilled to me by my former Arminian pastors, and the Arminian seminary I went to.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Simmer down. I gave Biblical principle here, that alone is my agenda. Somehow you're taking this as a personal attack?

Discuss the Scriptural aspect and leave the paranoia at the door. If the Scriptures disagree with your creeds &c then throw them out in favor of truth.

your funny! Scripture is my doctrine.....as a Calv Brother, say your an elder in a committe to select the next Head preaching & teaching eldership. A Pastor with experience comes in & you interview him & you ask him to spend a 1/2 hour reviewing doctrines of grace.Well the guy looks at you & tells you he dont agree with Systematic Theology Certainly not with Election & Predestination (he considers it nonsense & not biblical) Side note: Think he is from California. Now do you allow him into the church? Somehow I dont think he would be on your list of candidates. Right!

now he may be an affable chap & one you have over for a sandwich & beer, however to be head elder? :laugh:

 

[preacher4truth]

your funny! Scripture is my doctrine.....as a Calv Brother, say your an elder in a committe to select the next Head preaching & teaching eldership. A Pastor with experience comes in & you interview him & you ask him to spend a 1/2 hour reviewing doctrines of grace.Well the guy looks at you & tells you he dont agree with Systematic Theology Certainly not with Election & Predestination (he considers it nonsense & not biblical) Side note: Think he is from California. Now do you allow him into the church? Somehow I dont think he would be on your list of candidates. Right!

now he may be an affable chap & one you have over for a sandwich & beer, however to be head elder? :laugh:

Uh, when this move to simple fellowship to interviewing one to become head elder?

Two differing situations.

- Peace

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Uh, when this move to simple fellowship to interviewing one to become head elder?

Two differing situations.

- Peace

Im touching on a much broader question being raised while my Brother in Christ Pino touches on the details. I think you understand. Lastly per another brother who reminded me:

PB's are closed communion


2Co 6:16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

(2Co 6:17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

(2Co 6:18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

[Dr. Bob]

We have a doctrinal statement of basic belief that unifies our body. There are lots of churches that have little or no such statement and folks are free to be part of their group.

But ours demands fidelity to a basic core of doctrine/practice. Can two even walk together unless there is basic agreement? Ask a Jew and Palestinian

This is why Baptists have always been a "confessional" people - holding to some confession/statement of belief. Not mindlessly repeated a "creed". London Confession, New Hampshire Confess, Baptist Faith & Message, etc. If you don't agree, you may worship with us and learn, but not be "part" of the body.

 

[Robert Snow]

Im touching on a much broader question being raised while my Brother in Christ Pino touches on the details. I think you understand. Lastly per another brother who reminded me:

PB's are closed communion


2Co 6:16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

(2Co 6:17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

(2Co 6:18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

We don't agree often when it comes to church doctrine. You claim there is so much of a difference between your DoG theology and the others, like me, here who are not Calvinists that you possibly feel the need to leave.

At first I was compelled to encourage you to reconsider and mention that I often enjoy your postings, even when I don't agree with them completely.

However, if you really feel that those of us who do not accept Calvinism are equal to "idols" and "the unclean thing," then perhaps this has become too intense for you and maybe it will benefit you to step away and reevaluate your understanding of how God wants you to behave toward the brethren.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We don't agree often when it comes to church doctrine. You claim there is so much of a difference between your DoG theology and the others, like me, here who are not Calvinists that you possibly feel the need to leave.

At first I was compelled to encourage you to reconsider and mention that I often enjoy your postings, even when I don't agree with them completely.

However, if you really feel that those of us who do not accept Calvinism are equal to "idols" and "the unclean thing," then perhaps this has become too intense for you and maybe it will benefit you to step away and reevaluate your understanding of how God wants you to behave toward the brethren.

Thanks for giving me permission:laugh:I know that it is only out of consern for me that you make that heartfelt statment ...... couldnt have anything to do with your bias against PB's......no no no :laugh: So I will take it under serious advisement & you will be the 1st to know my decision....OK!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm sure there has been some churches in the past that held this view. I was raised in a Presbyterian church which which was Calvinistic and went to a seminary which was of the same but if you believed in an orthodox soteriology you would be accepted. Why because most can explain their soteriolgy with Scripture, and we can be partly correct or wrong, we will find out when we get to haven.



This is the part that has changed in my part of the world in the last 15 years or so. I have been in churches that have had folks with different soteriology than the pastor and worshiped and lived to God's glory. Now there seem to be a battle, if you aren't just like me.
Keep in mind most of us believe what the Scripture says, we disagree on the mechanics of how God carries it out.

I use to go to a lot of Presbyterian churches and Baptist churches and debate Calvinism, it was done so they had a better understanding of other views of soteriology , to see we were in accord on most and were brother and sisters in Christ. These debates were done in love, not to win or lose but to see and understand each other and I never saw the harsh talk or debate that I've seen at times on the BB. It is why for the most part I don't debate this often.
If one believes in the fundamentals of the faith, I can worship with them, break bread with them, all to the glory of God.

Well yes, 20 yrs ago now my wife dragged me off to a PCUSA church because my infant son needed religion (that was her claim, not mine) & my wife was committed to Reformed churches, her being raised in Dutch Reformed Churches. Astonishingly the then pastor attempted to teach doctrine via Westminster confessions (of course nobody paid attention) so the church became a gathering place belonging system. Last week I went past the old church & its falling into disrepair & they have a sign that reads: Everyone welcome....not just Presbyterians. There also interviewing a openly proclaiming lesbian as their next pastor. Bottom line its a dead church & I can in vision J. Gresham Machen doing a Hi-Five with John Knox.

I sincerely hope that Florida isnt becoming Liberal & Apostate because I have plans to move there when I retire. Im assured there are PB & Reformed Baptist Churches there....am I wrong? Tampa specifically!

 

[quantumfaith]

I'm sure there has been some churches in the past that held this view. I was raised in a Presbyterian church which which was Calvinistic and went to a seminary which was of the same but if you believed in an orthodox soteriology you would be accepted. Why because most can explain their soteriolgy with Scripture, and we can be partly correct or wrong, we will find out when we get to haven.



This is the part that has changed in my part of the world in the last 15 years or so. I have been in churches that have had folks with different soteriology than the pastor and worshiped and lived to God's glory. Now there seem to be a battle, if you aren't just like me.
Keep in mind most of us believe what the Scripture says, we disagree on the mechanics of how God carries it out.

I use to go to a lot of Presbyterian churches and Baptist churches and debate Calvinism, it was done so they had a better understanding of other views of soteriology , to see we were in accord on most and were brother and sisters in Christ. These debates were done in love, not to win or lose but to see and understand each other and I never saw the harsh talk or debate that I've seen at times on the BB. It is why for the most part I don't debate this often.
If one believes in the fundamentals of the faith, I can worship with them, break bread with them, all to the glory of God.

:applause::applause::applause:

 

[Bob Alkire]

I sincerely hope that Florida isnt becoming Liberal & Apostate because I have plans to move there when I retire.

We use to be a southern state but we are now a state of people from NY, NJ,Ct. for the most part or at lease where I live, western Fl. for the most part has a lot of southern still left in it. We are more than likely just like it is where you live. We are very liberal and apostate and then among many of the good churches their is fighting at times between and with in each over soteriology and eschatology. A great place to carry the Gospel out, the fields are ripe for harvest. I think as long as we love our neighbor and keep Jesus first and get the news of Jesus Christ out to the lost we can and will be better due to His power. The Holy Spirit can and does great works.

Im assured there are PB & Reformed Baptist Churches there....am I wrong? Tampa specifically!

We have anything you want and much you don't want. Reading some of your post, I would say we and Tampa has more PB than you do in NJ. Off the top of my head I would guess that somewhere between 8 and 15 percent of Baptist churches are Reformed of one type or another down here, and many Sovereign Grace Churches.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hows the Rye Bread & Pizza? :love2: I know I can get good Orange Juce. Dr Bob earlier said in his town there are 18-22 Baptist Churches.....care to venture how many I got in a 50 Mile Radius? :laugh:

 

[quantumfaith]

Hows the Rye Bread & Pizza? :love2: I know I can get good Orange Juce. Dr Bob earlier said in his town there are 18-22 Baptist Churches.....care to venture how many I got in a 50 Mile Radius? :laugh:

There are 57 SBC churches in our association, followed closely by a similar number of Banks and Used Car lots. I would guess there to be another 30 or so Independent and Free Will Baptist churches in our county.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There are 57 SBC churches in our association, followed closely by a similar number of Banks and Used Car lots. I would guess there to be another 30 or so Independent and Free Will Baptist churches in our county.

Any Catholics.....probably 30 of them churches in my county. & I never saw an SBC church to be honest wit chu. The Illegals fill the Sunday Evening RC service all by themselves

 

[quantumfaith]

Any Catholics.....probably 30 of them churches in my county. & I never saw an SBC church to be honest wit chu. The Illegals fill the Sunday Evening RC service all by themselves

We have 1 Catholic church in our county that I know of.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We have 1 Catholic church in our county that I know of.

That answers my question about pizza quality.