Do you believe in God? Then you have a moral duty to fight climate change, writes Jim Antal

[Revmitchell]

No one has neglected anything and not all regs are good.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

Yes.


Except that we have damaged the planet in many ways and continue to do it. I grew up in a very polluted part of the United States. I remember what it used to be like before the EPA was formed and brought regulations to the oil industry. Now, it is much cleaner and healthier, although still not where it needs to be.

I'm glad it has been cleaned up. I agree about addressing environmental injustice to communities of people who are living in areas where toxins are too high for human health.

We have huge areas of the ocean where plastics swirl in the currents, affecting wildlife, with no real plan to clean it up.

That is very sad, and I'm glad trash is no longer dumped in the ocean as a deliberate, officially approved way to dispose of it.

If we burn a large amount of fuel each day and destroy huge sections of vegetation that takes in all of the carbon dioxide and carbon and converts it to oxygen, then we are going to have at least some negative effect on the climate. That's just common sense. As Christians, we are supposed to be good stewards of the world, so we should try to live as cleanly as possible.

I disagree that your assertion is just common sense. It requires science to understand it, and the science has been exposed as faked.

Regarding all of the climate change alarmism, I think much of it is overblown, but we may see the seas rise in many coastal areas and oceans as part of long term trends cause by solar activity, fossil fuel pollution, etc.

Sea level cycles of rising and falling are gradual and normal.

What is harmful is that Christians in this country have reacted to the climate change alarmism by simply going the other direction and trying to undo the gains we have made to reduce pollution. We have neglected the biblical mandate to be good stewards of the earth, and, by our political rhetoric, we are teaching the next generation that God is indifferent toward His creation.

I agree we shouldn't simply oppose everything green. I just think we need to be careful about wolves in green sheeps' clothing.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I'm glad it has been cleaned up. I agree about addressing environmental injustice to communities of people who are living in areas where toxins are too high for human health.

It seems the Trump administration has been trying to undercut many of the safeguards against pollution in favor of short-term gains for businesses and the coal industry.

That is very sad, and I'm glad trash is no longer dumped in the ocean as a deliberate, officially approved way to dispose of it.

Yes, but we need a way to penalize illegal dumping, as well as clean up the mess.

I disagree that your assertion is just common sense. It requires science to understand it, and the science has been exposed as faked.

I'm assuming you are referring to what is called climate change science. I wasn't referring to that body of work -- merely the facts that our world burns an enormous amount of fossil fuel and that we are deforesting many of the earth's recharge zones where massive amounts of photosynthesis takes place (plant absorption of carbon dioxide that produces oxygen). The combination of the two things being done is going to have a negative effect on the climate. The only science in view in my statement is that combustion of fossil fuels releases carbon into the atmosphere - much of it carbon dioxide - and that photosynthesis takes carbon out of the atmosphere and replaces it with oxygen. I don't think those two scientific theories are faked, or even in dispute.

Sea level cycles of rising and falling are gradual and normal.

Sure. I have lived in Texas all my life (although in three different regions), and all of them used to be underwater in a shallow sea. I'd rather not go back to that condition.

I agree we shouldn't simply oppose everything green. I just think we need to be careful about wolves in green sheeps' clothing.

Absolutely. Especially when they are Christian or political leaders who want us to ignore what the scripture tells us about taking care of the earth.

 

[Baptist Believer]

No one has neglected anything..

Have you taught your congregation about creation care? Are you an advocate for cleaner air and water, and water conservation?

I do and I am.

...and not all regs are good.

Obviously.

 

[Yeshua1]

Have you taught your congregation about creation care? Are you an advocate for cleaner air and water, and water conservation?

I do and I am.


Obviously.

we are NOT though to go green as the liberals and left wing Christs advocate, as basically, that is their way to get wealth redistribution, as to them, capitalism and making wealth by hard work is an evil thing!

 

[I Love An Atheist]

It seems the Trump administration has been trying to undercut many of the safeguards against pollution in favor of short-term gains for businesses and the coal industry.

He has issued some executive orders to roll back Obama's executive orders, but this is so that the laws can be rewritten. That will take years to happen. It is something to watch.

Trump Plans to Begin E.P.A. Rollback With Order on Clean Water

I know the environmental orgs say that he is just giving businesses whatever they want, at the expense of the environment. I no longer believe whatever the environmental orgs say. They are funded by an elite and are not just grassroots things. They don't even get most of their funding from membership dues. That is only a fraction of their funds.

I used to jump on every green bandwagon, because I thought grassroots green and crunchy people banding together against big business had more credibility to me. This is a false impression, though. Scratch the surface and study it, and it is a bunch of very powerful foundations and NGOs that are elite-directed and not grassroots-directed.

Here is one resource, and of course it has its bias and narrative, but it does provide facts and documentation. It can be a little dry. Apologies for the provocative title of the site. Environmentalism is fascism

I am apt to support real grassroots efforts by the little people. Those actually happen sometimes. Like the Love Canal moms, for one well-known example.

Yes, but we need a way to penalize illegal dumping, as well as clean up the mess.

The Ocean Dumping Ban Act was enacted in 1988. I am not aware of anybody advocating that it be rolled back. Ocean Dumping Ban Act - environmental, history, EPA, industrial, disposal

I'm assuming you are referring to what is called climate change science. I wasn't referring to that body of work -- merely the facts that our world burns an enormous amount of fossil fuel and that we are deforesting many of the earth's recharge zones where massive amounts of photosynthesis takes place (plant absorption of carbon dioxide that produces oxygen). The combination of the two things being done is going to have a negative effect on the climate. The only science in view in my statement is that combustion of fossil fuels releases carbon into the atmosphere - much of it carbon dioxide - and that photosynthesis takes carbon out of the atmosphere and replaces it with oxygen. I don't think those two scientific theories are faked, or even in dispute.

But we need to have sensible laws, not laws that result in things like this. The EU and UN have a history of oppressive laws with ridiculous consequences. And here is one example:

Hardwood forests cut down to feed Drax Power plant, Channel 4 Dispatches claims

 

[Revmitchell]

Obama tried to destroy the coal industry. Good for Trump rolling back those regs so the coal industry can recover. We need it.

 

[FollowTheWay]

The so called Social Gospel, that saves no sinner, and does not save society/culture either!

Societies and cultures aren't saved. Individuals are saved. One day all of us will stand before Christ and be judged. Waving the American flag or proclaiming we are a veteran will have nothing to do with our faith. The so-called social gospel is the true gospel. Read MAT 25.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I believe we have a duty to be responsible stewards of the environment.

The problem lies in figuring out what is causing the problem and finding an equitable way to affect it.

Worldwide distribution of wealth with cheaters like China and India getting a pass is not the way to do it.

Wealth has already been redistributed from the poor and middle class to the rich. You must have not been paying attention for the last 30 years.

 

[FollowTheWay]

We are urged to fight for something supported by Junk science, and yet not a peep on fighting against Abortion!

You KNOW it's junk science because.....?

 

[I Love An Atheist]

Wealth has already been redistributed from the poor and middle class to the rich. You must have not been paying attention for the last 30 years.

I agree, but how would it help the poor and middle class in America to redistribute American wealth to India, China or other countries?

 

[I Love An Atheist]

Societies and cultures aren't saved. Individuals are saved. One day all of us will stand before Christ and be judged. Waving the American flag or proclaiming we are a veteran will have nothing to do with our faith. The so-called social gospel is the true gospel. Read MAT 25.

Was Jesus preaching to governments or to individuals? Was He calling for charity or for government sponsored wealth redistribution? I think we have quite a few issues to discuss here.

In my community a Christian woman started a local food bank, quoting from the third parable in Matthew 25 when she was interviewed. Her statement was so beautiful that it brought tears to the eyes of the newspaper editor.

I don't know if this woman is Libertarian, Democrat, or what. But what if she were to be a Libertarian. Do you think she would be judged for it on Judgement Day?

 

[I Love An Atheist]

You KNOW it's junk science because.....?

Because it doesn't pass the smell test when there are stories like this one:

Climate change: this is the worst scientific scandal of our generation

 

[Alcott]

Societies and cultures aren't saved. Individuals are saved. One day all of us will stand before Christ and be judged. Waving the American flag or proclaiming we are a veteran will have nothing to do with our faith. The so-called social gospel is the true gospel. Read MAT 25.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek [Romans 1:16].

Is filling the bellies of people to keep them from hunger more the gospel than filling them with Christ to keep them from eternal damnation?

 

[FollowTheWay]

I agree, but how would it help the poor and middle class in America to redistribute American wealth to India, China or other countries?

I'm mainly talking about focusing on the problems we have here in America about starvation and inadequate health care among the poor and needy. We also have a pollution problem that needs to be addressed. meanwhile, Trump is dismantling the EPA and tearing down current clean air and clean water regulations? Why? So he and his rich friends can make more money.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Because it doesn't pass the smell test when there are stories like this one:

Climate change: this is the worst scientific scandal of our generation

You never answered my question. Why do you want to continue to pollute our air and water for the next generation? If we address this we will also be addressing the climate concerns. God gave us His creation to take care of. Why do you want to trash God's creation?

 

[FollowTheWay]

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek [Romans 1:16].

Is filling the bellies of people to keep them from hunger more the gospel than filling them with Christ to keep them from eternal damnation?

They go hand in hand. People respond to the gospel message when we show we have genuine Christian love for them. Christ stated the importance of this:

[Mat 25:37-40 KJV] 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

You never answered my question. Why do you want to continue to pollute our air and water for the next generation? If we address this we will also be addressing the climate concerns. God gave us His creation to take care of. Why do you want to trash God's creation?

You are just going to keep on saying the same things to me no matter what I reply, aren't you? We have been through this in a previous thread. I will stand on what I already said. There is no need to repeat it ad infinitum.

I give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean well. I just regard you as being deceived. You apparently are comfortable imputing motives to me, and grandly evil ones at that. You don't have to answer this question to me, but ask it in private in your own heart. To impute grandly evil motives to me only to score a point in an argument: is that encouraged in the Gospel?

 

[just-want-peace]

You KNOW it's junk science because.....?

The left

You are just going to keep on saying the same things to me no matter what I reply, aren't you? We have been through this in a previous thread. I will stand on what I already said. There is no need to repeat it ad infinitum.

I give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean well. I just regard you as being deceived. You apparently are comfortable imputing motives to me, and grandly evil ones at that. You don't have to answer this question to me, but ask it in private in your own heart. To impute grandly evil motives to me only to score a point in an argument: is that encouraged in the Gospel?

FTW is the one I once accused (still not sure he isn't) of being a now banned -CRABTOWNBOY !! These responses from him (FTW) are almost precisely what CTB would have created.
If you aren't familiar with said poster, look him up & you'll see what I mean.
It was IMPOSSIBLE to discuss anything related to politics with him as he would end up accusing conservatives of all sorts of evil actions/beliefs/intents, while never answering any questions asked of him by others.

I DO admire your patience and civility, but it is wasted on such as these.

 

[church mouse guy]

Obama tried to destroy the coal industry. Good for Trump rolling back those regs so the coal industry can recover. We need it.

Trump helped Indiana. We are # 5 in US coal mining. Also, we burn coal to make cheap, dependable electricity, which is sold to other states. The Democrats wanted to destroy all that.