Do You believe in God?

[Ben1445]

1) What has gotten into you, Sir? Did I say it is "so important that we understand the Trinity?" Nope Why are you addressing made up claims?

I am not making anything up. You said this.

does scripture require belief in the Holy Spirit? Yes.

And this…

Can we be saved if we do NOT believe in the Trinity, One God in three Persons? Of course not.

And this…

Folks, Romans 10:9-10 REQUIRES belief in the Trinity!

And then you said it again…

Folks, Romans 10:9-10 REQUIRES belief in the Trinity!

Also this…

we need to present the gospel to those who deny God in three Persons.

And this…

we must believe in the Trinity.

So either you don’t remember what you have said or you don’t realize the natural conclusion and consequence of what you have said.

2) Next you seek to establish New Covenant requirements using Old Covenant examples. I provided the NT verses that established the requirement to "believe" in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Why not address them?

Because people under the old covenant were saved in a different way?? They were not.

3) Do you actually think if one verse says you must believe "on the Lord Jesus" that means you do NOT need to believe in the One who sent Him.
That sort of Hermeneutic is absurd. A proper interpretation would be consistent with "ALL" verses, contextually considered.

Just that given your hermeneutical interpretation, I have reason now to doubt the salvation of the Philippian jailer.
I don’t really, but if I agreed with you I would have reason to.

4) Did I say or suggest you were denying the Trinity? Another false claim.

Not a false claim. Just an assurance that we both believe in the Trinity.
Calm down and don’t assume that everyone is attacking you all the time.

5) Did I say the Holy Spirit was raised again? Nope

That is good. I would be worried if you did.
But you missed the point since you think you are being attacked.

The Holy Spirit is not the source of salvation. Jesus Christ died for us. It is Christ who we must believe in. There is no requirement for us to believe on the name of the Holy Spirit.
If I were to ever figure out your full name, would that mean that I have been talking to someone else?
Not at all. I have only learned about the person I speak to.
If I learn about the God I trust in, it doesn’t change the God I have trusted in.
If I am willing only for a god of preference to be a certain person then I may have created a new god. But to learn about God in entirety or even to a certain degree is not laid out anywhere. If I am mistaken, show me where.

6) Let us try to make something useful from your post

Thank you, your eminence for gracing my post.

, let us discuss Acts 16:31:

​

They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” NASB ​

a) Your translation is correct, the verse should be translated believe "on" the Lord Jesus."

b) The TR and MT have "Christ" but the CT does not. Not at issue in this discussion.

c) The "will be" or "shall be" saved is a future passive action, and is NOT the action of "believing."
d) The verse does not indicate whether the believing is in the opinion of the individual or of God. But other verses clearly teach God decides whose belief will be credited as righteousness.
e) Here the "household" refers to those among his spiritual family, thus all those who believe as determined by God will be saved.

Does any of this have anything to do with the question raised?

No. Everything that is supposed to make value from my post is off topic.

 

[Van]

You did say much more than faith in God is necessary for salvation, but then attempted to walk it back when you were called out.

Not only do you rewrite scripture to conform to your beliefs, you deny your own posts to conform to the immediate argument.

No, you are claiming the verses you cited support your assertions. When it is pointed out the verses you cited are NOT speaking of a REQUIREMENT for salvation, you simply refuse to acknowledge what is clear to everyone else, obfuscate, deflect, call names, impugn, and above all else you DO NOT even attempt to explain HOW those verses are giving a requirement for salvation beyond what Paul clearly stated.

Good for you. No problem so far.

Ok, no problem so far, unless you are claiming a person MUST believe Jesus was sent by the Father or they cannot be saved. Then we have an issue.

Water baptism isn’t required for salvation.


Peace to you

Good Grief! What Gibberish. Hate mail on display.

1) This poster is pretending NOT to know the difference between believing in the Trinity, and correctly understanding the Trinity. I kid you not.

2) Do we need to believe in the One who sent Jesus to be saved? This poster is so biblically illiterate he does NOT know the answer is Yes. I kid you not.

3) Note in the above post, first he says I said we need to believe "much more" than faith in God, and then quotes me saying I accepted on faith that God the Father raised God the Son with the power of the Holy Spirit. I kid you not.

 

[Van]

I am not making anything up. You said this.

And this…
And this…
And then you said it again…
Also this…
And this…

So either you don’t remember what you have said or you don’t realize the natural conclusion and consequence of what you have said.

Because people under the old covenant were saved in a different way?? They were not.


Just that given your hermeneutical interpretation, I have reason now to doubt the salvation of the Philippian jailer.
I don’t really, but if I agreed with you I would have reason to.

Not a false claim. Just an assurance that we both believe in the Trinity.
Calm down and don’t assume that everyone is attacking you all the time.

That is good. I would be worried if you did.
But you missed the point since you think you are being attacked.

The Holy Spirit is not the source of salvation. Jesus Christ died for us. It is Christ who we must believe in. There is no requirement for us to believe on the name of the Holy Spirit.
If I were to ever figure out your full name, would that mean that I have been talking to someone else?
Not at all. I have only learned about the person I speak to.
If I learn about the God I trust in, it doesn’t change the God I have trusted in.
If I am willing only for a god of preference to be a certain person then I may have created a new god. But to learn about God in entirety or even to a certain degree is not laid out anywhere. If I am mistaken, show me where.

Thank you, your eminence for gracing my post.





Does any of this have anything to do with the question raised?

No. Everything that is supposed to make value from my post is off topic.

1) Good Grief! This poster is pretending he does NOT know the difference between believing in something, and understanding the something. I kid you not.

2) Does he even comprehend Romans 10:9-10 REQUIRES belief in the Trinity? God raised Him, refers to multiple Persons of the Trinity.

3) Next this poster appears to deny the requirements of the New Covenant override requirements of the Old Covenant. I kid you not. I provided the New Covenant requirements, and he seemed to say the Old Covenant example nullified the New Covenant requirement.

4) The jailer was baptized along with other believers. The verse does not define just what must a person believe about Jesus, but Paul spoke the words of God to them, and therefore you do NOT know what they believed about Jesus.

5) Did I say the Holy Spirit is the "source" of salvation? No so more obfuscation via implied misrepresentation.

6) Next, this poster falsely claims Romans 8:11 does not say the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead. Or the poster denies we must believe in the One who raised Jesus from the dead. And that "One" is our Triune God. Romans 10:9.

7) Lastly to believe in the name of someone does not mean to know their full name. It means they believe in what is known about the Person, such as God incarnate, Anointed One, Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, born of a virgin. sinless, died on the cross as a sacrifice for the sin of humanity, and was raised by our Triune God on the third day.

 

[canadyjd]

Good Grief! What Gibberish. Hate mail on display.

1) This poster is pretending NOT to know the difference between believing in the Trinity, and correctly understanding the Trinity. I kid you not.

2) Do we need to believe in the One who sent Jesus to be saved? This poster is so biblically illiterate he does NOT know the answer is Yes. I kid you not.

3) Note in the above post, first he says I said we need to believe "much more" than faith in God, and then quotes me saying I accepted on faith that God the Father raised God the Son with the power of the Holy Spirit. I kid you not.

I kid you not, this poster cannot see his own convoluted arguments.

This poster is pretending there is no contradictions in his statements. Concerning the Trinity, he said “I had no idea” when he was saved. He then claims he believed the Trinity when he was saved. He pretends “believing the one who sent” Jesus is the same as believing the Trinity. I kid you not.

When anyone very calmly explains why he is wrong, he asserts “hate mail on display” I kid you not.

This poster is so biblically and theologically illiterate he continuously starts threads with the very purpose of attempting to justify changing the words of scripture to fit his beliefs.

I KID YOU NOT

Folks, anyone reading any of this posters threads should be very careful, lest you be confused by his many, and constantly changing answers.

Peace to you

 

[Ascetic X]

Proverbs 20:3​

It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife, but every fool will be quarreling.

Proverbs 26:21​

As charcoal to hot embers and wood to fire, so is a quarrelsome man for kindling strife.

Proverbs 17:14​

The beginning of strife is like letting out water, so quit before the quarrel breaks out.

Proverbs 18:6​

A fool's lips walk into a fight, and his mouth invites a beating.

 

[Van]

I kid you not, this poster cannot see his own convoluted arguments.

This poster is pretending there is no contradictions in his statements. Concerning the Trinity, he said “I had no idea” when he was saved. He then claims he believed the Trinity when he was saved. He pretends “believing the one who sent” Jesus is the same as believing the Trinity. I kid you not.

When anyone very calmly explains why he is wrong, he asserts “hate mail on display” I kid you not.

This poster is so biblically and theologically illiterate he continuously starts threads with the very purpose of attempting to justify changing the words of scripture to fit his beliefs.

I KID YOU NOT

Folks, anyone reading any of this posters threads should be very careful, lest you be confused by his many, and constantly changing answers.

Peace to you

1) Falsehood #1. My argument for the necessity of believing in the Trinity, One God in Three Persons is NOT convoluted.
2) Falsehood #2. As a child, I believed in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I was unaware the concept was "complicated."
3) Falsehood #3. To believe in the name of Jesus is to believe Jesus is God incarnate, sent by God, and empowered with the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Did I understand the Trinity Triangle? Nope, I had no idea.
4) Falsehood #4. Hate Mail is to deliberately misrepresent the views of another. As shown, this posters posts are hate mail.
5) More Hate Mail: "This poster is so biblically and theologically illiterate he continuously starts threads with the very purpose of attempting to justify changing the words of scripture to fit his beliefs." Nuff said

 

[canadyjd]

Proverbs 20:3​

It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife, but every fool will be quarreling.

Proverbs 26:21​

As charcoal to hot embers and wood to fire, so is a quarrelsome man for kindling strife.

Proverbs 17:14​

The beginning of strife is like letting out water, so quit before the quarrel breaks out.

Proverbs 18:6​

A fool's lips walk into a fight, and his mouth invites a beating.

Agreed. With that, I’ll bow out

Peace to you

 

[Van]

Would a false teacher, presenting false doctrine, claim those who object based of specific scripture are being quarrelsome?

 

[Van]

We do not only need to believe in the Son of God, we must also believe in the One who sent Him, i.e. God the Father.

We cannot please God if we do not believe He exists or rewards those who seek Him.

Can we be saved if we do NOT believe in the Trinity, One God in three Persons? Of course not.

That would be like saying I believe in one third of God, or I believe in two thirds of God, but I do NOT believe in the Triune God.

​

you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love the LORD [Yahweh] your God with all your heart and with all your soul.​

Now Jesus cried out and said, “The one who believes in Me, does not believe only in Me, but also in Him who sent Me.​

Now without faith it is impossible to please Him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and that He rewards those who seek Him. ​

Some folks believe God the Father created the Son, rather than God the Son is our Eternal God.

Some folks believe the Holy Spirit is a force and power, but NOT a person, with will, emotion and intellect.

 

[Ben1445]

1) Good Grief! This poster is pretending he does NOT know the difference between believing in something, and understanding the something. I kid you not.

Once again, addressing me and not the topic.

2) Does he even comprehend Romans 10:9-10 REQUIRES belief in the Trinity? God raised Him, refers to multiple Persons of the Trinity.

Make up your mind. Is it required or not?
A few posts back you made it sound like the Trinity was not an issue. Now it is again.

3) Next this poster appears to deny the requirements of the New Covenant override requirements of the Old Covenant. I kid you not. I provided the New Covenant requirements, and he seemed to say the Old Covenant example nullified the New Covenant requirement.

For some reason @Van likes to talk about people and not to people. I guess we are not on speaking terms??
Or is this just a show that you are putting on?
Cut the drama, please.

And you misrepresent what I said. You need to work on reading comprehension or drop the defamation.
I sincerely don’t understand the way you think.
You take for granted that everyone knows what you are thinking and none of this makes sense to me.

4) The jailer was baptized along with other believers. The verse does not define just what must a person believe about Jesus, but Paul spoke the words of God to them, and therefore you do NOT know what they believed about Jesus.

But again, if it were so important, you would think that it would be part of the Roman’s road or at least one of the gospel tracts that you find at the rest stops, and at the very least stated as clearly in Scripture as it is stated to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
I’ve missed the believe on the Holy Spirit verse.

5) Did I say the Holy Spirit is the "source" of salvation? No so more obfuscation via implied misrepresentation.

It’s not obfuscation. It is relevant information that doesn’t help your argument.
And yes I am answering your misrepresentation of the gospel.

6) Next, this poster falsely claims Romans 8:11 does not say the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead.

Where did I say that.
This poster misrepresents anything I say and for what purpose I really don’t know.

Or the poster denies we must believe in the One who raised Jesus from the dead. And that "One" is our Triune God. Romans 10:9.

I am not saying that you don’t have to believe in God. I have said as much as you do not need to understand God.

7) Lastly to believe in the name of someone does not mean to know their full name. It means they believe in what is known about the Person, such as God incarnate, Anointed One, Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, born of a virgin. sinless, died on the cross as a sacrifice for the sin of humanity, and was raised by our Triune God on the third day.

And if they don’t know the word Triune they can’t be saved?

 

[Ben1445]

Would a false teacher, presenting false doctrine, claim those who object based of specific scripture are being quarrelsome?

Stop shouting.
Take an aspirin to help with the oncoming heart attack.
Breathe deeply.
It will all be okay.

And this is ridiculous. I think I will drop out of this one also.
From having my words twisted to say what I did not to dealing with irate posters, I’m done here also.

 

[Van]

Once again, addressing me and not the topic.


Make up your mind. Is it required or not?
A few posts back you made it sound like the Trinity was not an issue. Now it is again.


For some reason @Van likes to talk about people and not to people. I guess we are not on speaking terms??
Or is this just a show that you are putting on?
Cut the drama, please.

And you misrepresent what I said. You need to work on reading comprehension or drop the defamation.
I sincerely don’t understand the way you think.
You take for granted that everyone knows what you are thinking and none of this makes sense to me.


But again, if it were so important, you would think that it would be part of the Roman’s road or at least one of the gospel tracts that you find at the rest stops, and at the very least stated as clearly in Scripture as it is stated to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
I’ve missed the believe on the Holy Spirit verse.


It’s not obfuscation. It is relevant information that doesn’t help your argument.
And yes I am answering your misrepresentation of the gospel.


Where did I say that.
This poster misrepresents anything I say and for what purpose I really don’t know.


I am not saying that you don’t have to believe in God. I have said as much as you do not need to understand God.


And if they don’t know the word Triune they can’t be saved?

1) You claimed I said understand the Trinity, rather than believe in the Trinity. Thus on topic addressing your misrepresentation of my views.
2) Yes, Romans 10:9 requires believe in two of the Persons of the Trinity.
3) Next this poster indicates I said the Trinity is not an issue? But no quote or post number.
4) The Trinity is part of the gospel.
5) Next, this poster suggests we do NOT need to believe the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead. Or that scripture does NOT require that belief. Romans 8:11 tells us the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead. And we must believe in the One who raised Jesus to have our faith credited as righteousness. Romans 4:24.
6) Did the poster misrepresent I said the Holy Spirit was the source of salvation? Yes.
7) Romans 8:11 says the Holy Spirit raised Jesus, and we must believe in the one who raised Jesus.
8) Wow - the poster agrees, we must belief in our Triune God, but not necessarily understand our Triune God!!!!!!!!!!!!
9) But then the poster adds the last of many misrepresentations, we must know the word "Triune" to be saved. Not my view!!

 

[37818]

4) The Trinity is part of the gospel.

The three Persons are. How else do you mean?

 

[Van]

The three Persons are. How else do you mean?

One God in Three Persons. The concept is our Triune God raised Jesus from the dead, thus our Triune God is the One who raised Jesus from the dead. The gospel of Christ.

 

[JesusFan]

We know that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in unity with same common goal.

But how can 3 distinct persons be One God?

Is that possible for the human mind to process?

Not possible for finite mind to fully comprehend, but that is why needed divine revelation from God, as that view you posted seems to be more akin to Mormomn theology, 3 gods united in common purpose

 

[JesusFan]

Show me in Scripture where the Trinity is explained so I can understand exactly how that relationship works in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The water Baptism of Jesus