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Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter Brightfame52
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You are wrong in your thinking the Bible is the wrong place to get my thoughts. The Bible is my road map if you do not approve it's just to bad. I take scripture as it comes, I do not try to lump things together with preconceived thoughts. Pail did not learn all about Jesus in one flash of light. In Acts26:14-18These are the things that the Lord told Paul after the vision on the road
Paul was told what he must do afterwards of the vision.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.It had to take a while for him to get to the city, Because he was blinded.
It was three days before the Lord told Pail what to do. I believe this also included how he must be saved because when the scales fell off he received the Holy Spirit.
Act 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight..
You seem to want to lump the story together like it all happened in one day. Paul didn't repent on the road. The Bible does not say when he heard the gospel and we all know that we have to hear the gospel in order to be saved.
MB
1 John 2:22-25
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.
Did Paul deny Jesus?
If you had Pauls experience just to be on the safe side you would have called Him Lord as well It does not mean Paul believed anything. Before this happened he would not listen to the Christians because he believed they were wrong and deserved to die
MB
Perhaps you do not realize that you have just argued for God's elective work in a person such as Saul. Indeed, no one believes until God speaks.
Note what we read in Acts 9:10-15.
Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
I don't answer ignorant questions from those who should know better.
MB
37818
Well-Known Member
There are three accounts given regarding the first event of Jesus appearing to Saul.
Acts 9:3-9 you acknowledge.
Acts 22:6-10.
Acts 26:12-18. I cited.
I believe Saul was saved when Jesus appeared to him. You believe I am wrong for your reasons given. Show me the text where you understand Saul was saved.
Yes it is an ignorant question. Your ignorance is how you believe the scriptures this is why you ask ignorant questions.
MB
That is a works based Idea and not found in scripture.
MB
That is a works based Idea and not found in scripture. No where did Paul confess his sins on the road nor did he ask to be saved
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
What was it Paul must do? He must repent and believe in the gospel. You assume a lot in my opinion. I did too but after reading and looking a possible point of Salvation being granted. His Salvation was in the gospel which he needed to hear so that he could believe properly. Knowing who spoke to him is a lot different than actually believing in Him
Notice that the Lord says "make" not made in this verse.
Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
This is how he was saved by hearing the man who healed him Plus he was taught by disciples These things are necessary for Salvation. You have to hear the gospel. You have to believe. You must repent of your sins No one is saved with out these requirements Acts 26 Is Paul speaking to the King.
MB
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
If Election/Salvation was in any degree conditioned or contingent on what a person does, even thinks, then they could not be by Grace. Election is of Grace minus works Rom 9:11;11:5-6 and Salvation is the same Eph 2:8-9; 2 Tim 1:9
Why do you Quote Romans? this is addressed to the Jews.
MB
37818
Well-Known Member
Romans 11:13-23, ". . . For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. . . ."
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