-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter Brightfame52
- Start date
- Status
Who are Jews
MB
37818
Well-Known Member
And most likely often from followers of the way who he had arrested. So Jesus said to him in person from at the right hand of God, ". . . it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Paul was there when they stoned Stephen to death. In fact Paul held the rainment of those who stoned him
Act_22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
Can you give scripture for your statement?
MB
37818
Well-Known Member
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. " ( Ephesians 1:3-6 ).
Chosen in Him = Elected in Him.
"Elect":
adjective
1 : carefully selected : chosen.
"Elect":
noun
plural: elect
Definition of elect (Entry 2 of 3)
1 : one chosen or set apart (as by divine favor)
2 elects plural : a select or exclusive group of people
"Elect":
verb
elected; electing; elects
Definition of elect (Entry 3 of 3)
transitive verb
1 : to select by vote for an office, position, or membership .
elected her class president
2 : to make a selection of.
will elect an academic program
3 : to choose (something, such as a course of action) especially by preference
might elect to sell the business
Definition of ELECT
Last edited:
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 and he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." ( Acts of the Apostles 9:3-6 ).
He heard the voice of His Saviour, the same as anyone who is one of His sheep does ( John 8:47, John 10:27 ).
God's people recognize the voice of their Lord...
I remember it very well.
I sat up and took notice of it the very first time that I heard the word of God read and preached from the Bible.
Stated differently, I knew that it wasn't the words of man that I was hearing.
Last edited:
Let me get this straight. Based on the verse you quote and your statement that election is conditional, you are declaring that only those who do the will of the Father will be elect once they stand before God in heaven.
Do you not see that such a teaching is salvation by good works? Do you really mean to argue that only by good works can anyone enter the Kingdom and only then will they be chosen? I just can't believe you would actually argue for that means of salvation.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
One writer writes and I totally agree as it regards unconditional election:
.Those who are ordained unto eternal life were not so ordained on account of any worthiness foreseen in them, or of any good works to be wrought by them, nor yet for their future faith, but purely and solely of free, sovereign grace, and according to the mere pleasure of God. This is evident, among other considerations, from this: that faith, repentance and holiness are no less the free-gifts of God than eternal life itself. "Faith is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2.8). "Unto you it is given to believe" (Phil. 1.29). "Him hath God exalted with His right hand for to give repentance" (Acts 5.31). "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life" (Acts 11.18). In like manner holiness is called the sanctification of the Spirit (2 Thess. 2.13), because the Divine Spirit is the efficient of it in the soul, and, of unholy, makes us holy. Now, if repentance and faith are the gifts, and sanctification is the work of God, then these are not the fruits of man's free-will, nor what he acquires of himself, and so can neither be motives to, nor conditions of his election, which is an act of the Divine mind, antecedent to, and irrespective of all qualities whatever in the persons elected. Besides, the apostle asserts expressly that election is not of works, but of Him that calleth, and that it passed before the persons concerned had done either good or evil (Rom. 9.11).JEROME ZANCHIUS
Click to expand...
Man has hijacked what are Gifts of Gods Salvation applied, like Faith and Repentance and made them conditions man is suppose to perform before God will choose or save them.
.Those who are ordained unto eternal life were not so ordained on account of any worthiness foreseen in them, or of any good works to be wrought by them, nor yet for their future faith, but purely and solely of free, sovereign grace, and according to the mere pleasure of God. This is evident, among other considerations, from this: that faith, repentance and holiness are no less the free-gifts of God than eternal life itself. "Faith is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2.8). "Unto you it is given to believe" (Phil. 1.29). "Him hath God exalted with His right hand for to give repentance" (Acts 5.31). "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life" (Acts 11.18). In like manner holiness is called the sanctification of the Spirit (2 Thess. 2.13), because the Divine Spirit is the efficient of it in the soul, and, of unholy, makes us holy. Now, if repentance and faith are the gifts, and sanctification is the work of God, then these are not the fruits of man's free-will, nor what he acquires of himself, and so can neither be motives to, nor conditions of his election, which is an act of the Divine mind, antecedent to, and irrespective of all qualities whatever in the persons elected. Besides, the apostle asserts expressly that election is not of works, but of Him that calleth, and that it passed before the persons concerned had done either good or evil (Rom. 9.11).JEROME ZANCHIUS
Click to expand...
Man has hijacked what are Gifts of Gods Salvation applied, like Faith and Repentance and made them conditions man is suppose to perform before God will choose or save them.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Good grief, fellow. There are more conditions in Calvinism than any religion. The first condition is to have some sort of ethereal, other worldly election that no one can explain and you cannot prove. You cannot prove from the scriptures that pre creation election to salvation from the penalty of sin, which is the second death in the lake of fire, is true and that you are one of the said electees. You are proving that you are not elected by your gross confusion.
Your religion is about you and you are consumed with yourself.
If we knew His voice before we are saved then Why did Paul ask Who art thou Lord. You're so full of bull it's just plain pitiful
MB
37818
Well-Known Member
Galatians 6:15-16 too.
37818
Well-Known Member
That salvation is not by good works, Matthew 7:22-23. That is a condition of the will of God, Matthew 7:21.
From chapter 5-7 Jesus is giving his sermon to a people under the Mosaic Covenant. In chapter 5 he gives the beatitudes which give the blessings of faith.
Matthew 5:2-12 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying: “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sonsof God. “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
After this Jesus shows the people why they will never be saved by attempting to keep the law.
Just before your verses in chapter 7 we find the connection to your verses. Here they are.
Matthew 7:15-23 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
We recognize the redeemed by their fruit. The fruit is expressed in the beatitudes. It is also expressed by Paul.
Galatians 5:22-24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
How would you know are you a mystic. I already know you're a Gnostic so don't cast any spells on me OK
MB
- Status