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Does All Mean All...Does World mean All

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AustinC

Well-Known Member
In this post, you provide a saving solution whereby Jesus had no need to die. All a person has to do is choose God or not choose God.
God gave us the free will to choose to follow Him as our Lord and Savior or not. Does that mean, by giving us the free will to choose, that God does not know what we will choose in the end? No. He knows what everyone will choose, but that doesn't mean He took away our free will.

Everything works according to God's plan for those who love God and are called according to HIS purpose.

God loves everyone, saved and unsaved, (isn't that the epitome of John 3:16?) but he hates sin, and people condemn themselves if they choose not to repent and trust in God as their Lord and master.
Above we see the doctrine of works proposed by the act of repentance. Choose to repent and you are saved.

In this gospel, the atonement for sins is secondary and is only effectual if the human decides to believe it. The responsibility for salvation is entirely upon the human.

The ultimate desire of this teaching is to give humans all the control and strip God of any authoritative choice in saving anyone.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Just repeating the same thing to me doesn't make your belief that we do not choose to follow God or not of a conscious will is found anywhere in the Bible.

Did not Abraham have to choose to have faith in the OT before he was considered righteous before God?

Did not Paul have to make a decision to stop persecuting the church and follow God and tell others about Jesus before God saved him?

Do not YOU yourself have to CHOOSE to believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior before God's redeeming power has saved your soul frpm hell?

If the above answers are 'no'. Then there's really nothing more I can do to convince you that you are wrong in your thinking that we do not have a choice.

And explain what the HECK you mean by 'once a soul is convicted they have NO ABILITY to do anything toward God, but sin'. Are you talking about those who reject God, committing the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, in which so, when they do that, God 'gives them up' to a debased mind?

Explain, and try to make yourself presentable like an intelligent human being and not someone who is just spouting off the same statements over and over like a mad man.


Did not Abraham have to choose to have faith in the OT before he was considered righteous before God? NO.

Did not Paul have to make a decision to stop persecuting the church and follow God and tell others about Jesus before God saved him? NO.

Do not YOU yourself have to CHOOSE to believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior before God's redeeming power has saved your soul frpm hell? NO.

You have the wrong God in mind that you are discussing, with no Bible, btw.

The Conviction of a soul's ability to do nothing but sin takes place prior to God Granting Repentance and Faith.

"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Genesis 6:5.

Conviction of the Inability of a naturally born Spiritually dead sinner comes to them before Repentance and Faith.

Once a soul is Convicted that they have NO ABILITY to do anything toward God, but sin,

... they DO NOT, then, take up a philosophy about having some 'ability' to 'accept', or 'believe', or 'have faith', or 'choose', etc.

They already know they were IN NEED of A SAVIOR, as a sinner without strength
... and that THEY WERE NOT IT.

'Inability',
inability to 'accept',
Dead Spiritually,
Inability to 'believe' on their own,
Inability to 'have faith' of their own,
and the inability to 'choose', etc.,

ARE WHAT CONVICTION of SIN in THE SOUL
of A LOST SOUL IS.

Conviction of Total Depravity takes place in the lost soul PRIOR to Repentance and Faith.

There is no discussion to be made about whether someone 'chooses', etc., when they have not been Convicted of their sinful inability to 'Choose', first.

Elect children of God are Chosen by God, from Eternity Past.

( 1.3 ) The ETERNAL GODHEAD DETERMINED the Rejection of Some Angels and of Some Men. – Aware of The Godhead
 

Miss E

Active Member
In this post, you provide a saving solution whereby Jesus had no need to die. All a person has to do is choose God or not choose God.

Above we see the doctrine of works proposed by the act of repentance. Choose to repent and you are saved.

In this gospel, the atonement for sins is secondary and is only effectual if the human decides to believe it. The responsibility for salvation is entirely upon the human.

The ultimate desire of this teaching is to give humans all the control and strip God of any authoritative choice in saving anyone.

You're TWISTING my words and putting words into my mouth and interpreting my words with your screwy interpretation.

MAN DOES NOT SAVE HIMSELF. Man must BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED FOR THEM ON THE CROSS AND RECIEVE THE GIFT OF SALVATION THAT JESUS PAID ON TEH CROSS FOR US TO BE SAVED.

NO WHERE, NO WHERE DID I SAY MAN SAVES HIMSELF. You're an IDIOT.
 

Calminian

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
...Above we see the doctrine of works proposed by the act of repentance. Choose to repent and you are saved.....

Hmmm. I'm a little more concerned about a gospel absent of repentance. Repentance is decisional just like faith. Faith turns toward, repentance turns from. They are two sides of the same coin.

Hoping you don't deny the necessity of repentance. If so, you're rejecting Christ's teachings.
 

Miss E

Active Member
Did not Abraham have to choose to have faith in the OT before he was considered righteous before God? NO.

Did not Paul have to make a decision to stop persecuting the church and follow God and tell others about Jesus before God saved him? NO.

Do not YOU yourself have to CHOOSE to believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior before God's redeeming power has saved your soul frpm hell? NO.

You have the wrong God in mind that you are discussing, with no Bible, btw.

The Conviction of a soul's ability to do nothing but sin takes place prior to God Granting Repentance and Faith.

"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Genesis 6:5.

Conviction of the Inability of a naturally born Spiritually dead sinner comes to them before Repentance and Faith.

Once a soul is Convicted that they have NO ABILITY to do anything toward God, but sin,

... they DO NOT, then, take up a philosophy about having some 'ability' to 'accept', or 'believe', or 'have faith', or 'choose', etc.

They already know they were IN NEED of A SAVIOR, as a sinner without strength
... and that THEY WERE NOT IT.

'Inability',
inability to 'accept',
Dead Spiritually,
Inability to 'believe' on their own,
Inability to 'have faith' of their own,
and the inability to 'choose', etc.,

ARE WHAT CONVICTION of SIN in THE SOUL
of A LOST SOUL IS.

Conviction of Total Depravity takes place in the lost soul PRIOR to Repentance and Faith.

There is no discussion to be made about whether someone 'chooses', etc., when they have not been Convicted of their sinful inability to 'Choose', first.

Elect children of God are Chosen by God, from Eternity Past.

( 1.3 ) The ETERNAL GODHEAD DETERMINED the Rejection of Some Angels and of Some Men. – Aware of The Godhead

OKAY. So basically all I see that you are saying is that God chooses for us, we have NO CHOICE whether we go to hell or go to heaven.

This is what I believe, what I believed when I became saved and will forever believe and oh BTW you totally ignored the scipture I presented at the end of my last post!!

THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE:

Man is a sinner, rebellous against God. When that sinner is convicted of their sin by the Holy Spirit, they either CHOOSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR SIN and TURN TO GOD INSTEAD OF SIN, OR,

They continue sinning and do not believe God sent His only son to die for us on the cross. They believe in themselves essentially and are lost.

For any man or woman to be saved, they must CHOOSE, CHOOSE, CHOOSE, to follow Christ, to turn away from their sins and believe the Gospel.

JESUS SAVES US FROM HELL AND DAMNATION BECAUSE HE DIED IN OUR PLACE

ONCE WE BELIEVE IN WHAT HE DID AND TRUST IN HIM AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR

THEN WE ARE SAVED.

How hard is this to comprehend? This is the TRUTH OF THE BIBLE. How can anyone who isn't being deceived by the devil not understand that we have FREE WILL and WE CHOOSE, but GOD KNOWS WHAT WE CHOSE BEFORE WE WERE BORN. He knows all, He wouldn't be God otherwise.

To me Calvinism sounds like a false gospel. God have mercy on their blindness of you and your great love for us!!!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So you DONT agree that God loves the lost, the unsaved, and is, in fact, not a God who said Himself that He is Love.

I'll leave you all with the Word of God and I will be on my way. I pray that you hear what it says and understand that God Loves All, regardless of where we end up.

1 John 4:7-21

Knowing God Through Love

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

Seeing God Through Love

12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

The Consummation of Love

17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love [a]Him because He first loved us.

Obedience by Faith

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, [b]how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
All of those references actually support my take, as it refers to love for the fellow saints!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
God loves the world, but as Y says, he has a set-apart love for his elect. Whether you're coming from an arminian or calvinist perspective of the elect, God saves them, and condemn the rest. Both are meritless, so it would be impossible to say believers are not favored.
We ourselves love our friends, but love our families even more so, so why would not God Himself reflect that also? God favors and loves His own children, as only they have a Covenant relationship with Him thru Lord Jesus!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I don't disagree that believers aren't more highly favored than unbelievers, but God still loves unbelievers. That's what i'm saying. And I don't believe God condemns anyone, unbelievers condemn themselves.
God can love them in the sense he created all of us, but He has a special Love for and towards his own now in Christ!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Calvinism came out of Catholicism. You're a Calvinist you should know these things. The problem is you just won't admit it's true . You call your selves reformed which means you reformed the Catholic faith. Good fruit does not come from rotten trees
MB
Our theology comes from scriptures alone, correct?
 

Miss E

Active Member
All of those references actually support my take, as it refers to love for the fellow saints!

But what about the Bible verse that tells us to 'Love thy enemies'? Why would WE be commanded to do just that and God doesn't have to follow His own rules?

-smh-
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This is confused thinking. The original Church was not the same as the Catholic church that went astray in their soteriology. And the reformers did not successfully talk the Catholic church into changing their soteriology, so they branched off and formed the protestant denominations. They're not a branch of catholicism, they're protestors of catholicism.

In fact, most of the creeds we have are in response to error (bad trees). It's false to say truth never arises from error. Error is often the catalyst for truth movements.
If one wants to go to a bad root. what about the theology that sprouted roots from Charles Finny?
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Just repeating the same thing to me doesn't make your belief that we do not choose to follow God or not of a conscious will is found anywhere in the Bible.

Did not Abraham have to choose to have faith in the OT before he was considered righteous before God?

Did not Paul have to make a decision to stop persecuting the church and follow God and tell others about Jesus before God saved him?

Do not YOU yourself have to CHOOSE to believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior before God's redeeming power has saved your soul frpm hell?

If the above answers are 'no'. Then there's really nothing more I can do to convince you that you are wrong in your thinking that we do not have a choice.

And explain what the HECK you mean by 'once a soul is convicted they have NO ABILITY to do anything toward God, but sin'. Are you talking about those who reject God, committing the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, in which so, when they do that, God 'gives them up' to a debased mind?

Explain, and try to make yourself presentable like an intelligent human being and not someone who is just spouting off the same statements over and over like a mad man.
Unless the Ho;y Spirit Himself grants to us Grace to believe and receive Jesus as lord, none of us here would now be saved!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If you're insinuating my lack of salvation, then you need to step back and look at yourself in the mirror.

You make utterly NO sense.

Can anyone else interpret what this man @Alan Gross is saying here? Nothing what he says adds up.

And interesting that just after that verse Jesus says: These things I command you, that you love one another. (John 15:17)

I AM NOT SAYING THAT GOD DID NOT CHOOSE HIS REDEEMED BEFORE THE TIME. That is just like saying He KNEW who would CHOOSE HIM BEFORE WE MAKE THE CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO FOLLOW HIM. Are you just ignoring what I am saying?

And you want sciptural proof that we make a conscious decision to forsake sin and follow Christ? Here you go!

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name . . . John 1:12 (NASB)

. . . that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? Romans 10:14-15 (NASB)
First the Lord Himself must change us, giving to us new hearts and minds before can hear and receive Jesus thru faith!
 

Miss E

Active Member
Unless the Ho;y Spirit Himself grants to us Grace to believe and receive Jesus as lord, none of us here would now be saved!

If you're inferring we have a choice to make once after the holy spirit convicts us of our sin, then yes, I agree with you.
 

Miss E

Active Member
First the Lord Himself must change us, giving to us new hearts and minds before can hear and receive Jesus thru faith!

You and I have that different. I believe the opposite. We believe, THEN Jesus changes our heart, giving us a new heart, taking away our heart of stone. You must first have faith, then Jesus will grant you the Holy Spirit and change your heart.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Absolute nonsense the Church of God existed long before Catholicism was ever thought of.Protestantism didn't either/. You believe this because you think the Catholic church was the first church. This is not true
The RCC will produce the Anti Christ. It's a Godless church..
MB
H
In this post, you provide a saving solution whereby Jesus had no need to die. All a person has to do is choose God or not choose God.

Above we see the doctrine of works proposed by the act of repentance. Choose to repent and you are saved.

In this gospel, the atonement for sins is secondary and is only effectual if the human decides to believe it. The responsibility for salvation is entirely upon the human.

The ultimate desire of this teaching is to give humans all the control and strip God of any authoritative choice in saving anyone.
Either God Himself saves us Himself, or we help and enable Him to be able to do such!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hmmm. I'm a little more concerned about a gospel absent of repentance. Repentance is decisional just like faith. Faith turns toward, repentance turns from. They are two sides of the same coin.

Hoping you don't deny the necessity of repentance. If so, you're rejecting Christ's teachings.
I think that some have the wrong concept of biblical repenting, as some seem to teach must confess and forsake all known sins before getting saved, my take is that God commands us to repent of trying to save ourselves by human works and efforts!
 

Miss E

Active Member
H

Either God Himself saves us Himself, or we help and enable Him to be able to do such!

How DIFFICULT is it to understand..... that we.....have to choose to love God.... He does the saving, YES, but WE HAVE TO WANT TO BE SAVED AND THAT IS ONLY BY ACCEPTING CHRIST AS OUR LORD.

A relationship is not a ONE-SIDED THING. God loves us, unconditionally, saved and unsaved (granted, more love toward His children since they chose Him but still has love for the lost), and we have to CHOOSE TO LOVE HIM BACK.

This is elementary root of saving faith!!! WITHOUT FAITH WE CANT BE SAVED. Christ chose us before we were born, I don't not agree with that, but we STILL HAVE FREE WILL OTHERWISE WE WOULD BE ROBOTS JUST SERVING A GOD WHO MADE US TO LOVE HIM.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
But what about the Bible verse that tells us to 'Love thy enemies'? Why would WE be commanded to do just that and God doesn't have to follow His own rules?

-smh-
We are indeed called to love and pray for our enemies, as we model the example of Jesus...
 
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