Does God have a Mother II

[Eliyahu]

It is interesting that thousands of sites refer to Cyril as St Cyril, Holy Bishop of Alexandria and so on.
How much will they be surprised when they find him in the Lake of Fire?

 

[Eliyahu]

The common points that I notice about RC are that they hate Jews, Bible-translators, Bible reading, and so on.
For example, Pulcheria, the sister of Theodosius, the emperor, seduced the Emperor to condemn Nestorius, then expel Jews, didn't oppose to Arianism, built churches for the Virgin Mary. Then she was canonized as Saint by RC pope.

Even though, People who claim Mother of God say that it doesn't lead to Mary worship, they built the churches for the name of Virgin Mary, which proves that Mother of God puts Mary above God, or before God.

 

[natters]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
[QB] Again, you will encounter the contradiction if you apply the same logic which was used in Mother of God theory, to the other Godheads as follows:

2. Holy spirit is God,
Mary is Mother of God
Therefore Mary is Mother of Holy Spirit
3. God the Father is God
Mary is Mother of God.
Therefore Mary is Mother of God the Father

Wrong. Consider: Jesus is our Lord (as I think you agree), Mary is the "mother of our Lord" (as you've already agreed is an acceptable title for her), and scripture says there is one Lord (when referring to the Godhead). Let's rewrite your things like so:

1. Jesus is Lord,
Mary is Mother of Jesus
Therefore Mary is Mother of the Lord
2. Holy spirit is Lord,
Mary is Mother of the Lord
Therefore Mary is Mother of Holy Spirit
3. God the Father is Lord
Mary is Mother of the Lord.
Therefore Mary is Mother of God the Father

The first item is entirely true. The conclusions of the second and thired are not orthodox Trinitarianism, and thus your conclusions of the second two do not follow their true premises like the first one does. Thus, to continue to use them against my position is to be hypocritical, erroneous, unorthodox, employ a double standard, and just plain annoying.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
[QB]
I think I still have to continue to illustrate the silly aspects of syllogism:

1. Jesus is God,
Mary is Mother of Jesus
Therefore Mary is Mother of God.

The logic of the syllogism stops here. The conclusion is wrong. Mary was a vessel used one time in history to conceive the body of Jesus. Her womb provided the entrance for God the Son to make an entrance into this world, nothing more. She is a mere mortal, used of God, just as Hannah was used of God in the Old Testament to give birth to Samuel; and Rachel and Rebekkah, etc.; all women used of God in some way.

John said:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word was made flesh. Christ was not a descendent of Mary. Mary was not the mother of Christ--the one who is fully God and full man at the same time. She bore his body. She raised him as a mother. God doesn't have a mother. Christ existed before Mary. The body was simply a tent, a tabernacle, something temporary to house the God-man, and would not be made permanent until the resurrection. Paul speaks in the same manner of us in 2Cor.5:1-4.
Mary is not in any way the mother of God.
DHK

 

[natters]

Originally posted by DHK:
Christ was not a descendent of Mary.

Then how was Christ a descendent of David, and rightful heir to David's throne? How was he "made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Rom 1:3), "of the seed of David" (2 Tim 2:8), "of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh" (Acts 2:29) and "cometh of the seed of David" (John 7:42) if he was not biologically connected to Mary?

 

[Eliyahu]

May God bless DHK as he has a sound belief.

Natters, I fully understand your concern, but without calling Mary Mother of God, we can still defend that truth. the body of Jesus came out of her, no doubt. Don't worry!

According to traditional understaning, Mary may be the biological mother. Another thought is that she may not be the biological mother as Mt 1:20 says " the one in her is (already ) born out of Holy Spirit" (even before He was born of Mary) Therefore we are not sure whether Mary is the real Biological mother or not.

 

[natters]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Natters, I fully understand your concern

Then why not respond to it?

Is Jesus Lord? Yes.
Was Jesus Lord before he was conceived in Mary's womb? Yes.
Is Mary the mother of our Lord, even though Jesus existed as Lord before Mary existed? Yes!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by natters:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
Christ was not a descendent of Mary.

Then how was Christ a descendent of David, and rightful heir to David's throne? How was he "made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Rom 1:3), "of the seed of David" (2 Tim 2:8), "of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh" (Acts 2:29) and "cometh of the seed of David" (John 7:42) if he was not biologically connected to Mary? </font>[/QUOTE]Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

His descent is only confined to the body provided by him by the woman who raised him as his mother.
DHK

 

[Eliyahu]

Natters, we shouldnot use the strawman'logic syllogism.

Was God the Father was in the womb of Mary?

Please answer this first!

 

[natters]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Was God the Father was in the womb of Mary?

Please answer this first!

I have answered it. The answer is "no" - for the same reason the Father as "Lord" was not in the womb of Mary, even though Jesus the Son is "Lord" and there is only one Lord. Please pay attention.

 

[Eliyahu]

Natters, your logic is like this.
Someone obtained a key for a car. then he brought the car from the owner's
Police arrested him and he excused he didn't steal the car. But he just played with the key on the car, then the car just followed him.

Think about it!

 

[natters]

Originally posted by DHK:
..the body provided by him by the woman...

I don't understand - she provided his body, but she's not biologically connected to that body? How does that work?

 

[natters]

Eliyahu, instead of talking about unexplained analogies, how about just comment directly on Jesus as Lord before Mary's existence, yet Mary still being mother of our Lord?

 

[Eliyahu]

Natters,
You are wrong!
You are denying Trinity!
Are you separating God the Father and God the Son?
Have you read ?
Christ is all and in all (col 3:11)
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all and in you all (Eph 4:6)

Mary was mere a creature even at that time she was bearing Him.

As for your question about Lord:
I told you nobody misunderstand Lord means Pre-existence and Producer. Therefore Mother of Lord doesn't contradict Pre-existence of God.

I explained you this many times so far. I hope you will not ask me to repeat it.

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by natters:
Eliyahu, instead of talking about unexplained analogies, how about just comment directly on Jesus as Lord before Mary's existence, yet Mary still being mother of our Lord?

Jesus as Lord before Mary's existence, yet Mary still being mother of our Lord?

No problem with Mother of our Lord, which was used in Bible.

 

[natters]

Eliyahu, actually I'm asking you NOT to repeat it. I'm asking you to stop shooting your own position full of holes.

Simply answer this question as clearly as you can:
How is Mary the mother of our Lord?

 

[Eliyahu]

Natters, you believe Jesus was mere a Human Embryo in the womb of Mary!
He was the Creator and He was carrying her!
He was protecting Mary too!
Without Jesus, she couldn't survive one second! Do you believe this?
Without Jesus she was bounding toward the hell!

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by natters:
Eliyahu, actually I'm asking you NOT to repeat it. I'm asking you to stop shooting your own position full of holes.

Simply answer this question as clearly as you can:
How is Mary the mother of our Lord?

I answered your Q, right above your post. Do you need a glass?

 

[natters]

Stop sidetracking. How is Mary the mother of our Lord?

 

[Eliyahu]

answered you! look up!