freeatlast
New Member
No God does not learn. There is nothing outside of Him so there is nothing for Him to learn.
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Does God Learn?
- Thread starter mandym
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I'm glad you are comfortable telling Him what He has no need in doing.
...and more gnosticism...
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
A heretic is a heretic is a heretic whether in the 1st century or the 21st century.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Why is our lack of understanding for what God does used so often to author confusion about what God says or Who He is?
If we know that God is all-knowing and He is, then it serves to reason, and not authoring confusion, that the Scripture is not being rightly divided.
...or fruit fly's cannot understand quantum physics.
Words have meanings. The Holy Spirit inspired certain words that WE understand. Certainly He could have used words other than "test", "relent", "repent", "search". Why didn't He? Where are we told in Scripture rightly dividing the Word means to redefine words?
Zaac
Well-Known Member
No He CERTAINLY could not have used other words. You're speaking from the perspective of man and man's measure of time.
God is all-knowing. He said exactly what He intended to say and He could not have said anything else.
And rightly dividing the word is at its core an issue of discernment. If you're going to the AUTHOR of the word for understanding, He is NOT going to author confusion about something He says.
He's all-knowing and thus the notion that He "learns" is a notion of error from the reader.
The list of people willing to nullify scripture on the alter of doctrine keeps growing. Scripture says God learns. Nullify it if you want. Call nullification rightly dividing the word of God if you want. Charge those who accept what it says with being a heretic if you want. But try to defend your unbiblical view with scripture, naw this doctrine is a given. God is all knowing. But all knowing about what? Everything imaginable, or what we have hidden in our heart. Read all the passages and draw you own conclusion.
False face must hide what false heart doth know.
False face must hide what false heart doth know.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Where does Scripture say that an all-knowing God learns? At issue seems to be man's understanding or lack thereof of Who God says that He is.
We want to ascribe to God the ability to learn because that's what we relate to. In the scheme of being GOD, there is nothing to learn.
If there is something for the all-knowing to learn, He ceases to be all-knowing and thus ceases to be God.
So Scripturally, to ascribe learning as man understands it to God is to manufacture a god who IS NOT God. And that's right in the league of the Mormons and every other cult in existence.
Exactly what do some think all-knowing means?
I am about to go to the grocery store.
I ASSUME the computer will be in sync with the scanner and that the scanner will detect the product code correctly and aline it with the correct purchase price.
Perhaps it is the same with the discussion in this thread.
We assume that God being all knowing has no need to scan the "bar code" of the human heart, to search out the database for alignment to His perfect desire.
The Scriptures do present a dual perspective; a human perspective of God's work in time and space conformed to human understanding and experience, and also the perspective from God in which human understanding is "stretched" and must be relied upon by faith, alone.
At times the perspectives become stated as terms of being an "only," and that is when division and BB discussion gathers respondents into camps that may even sound unreasonable.
God has no need to search the hearts, but the Scriptures state that He does.
God has no need to try as a test the believers, but the Scriptures do state that He does.
God does not need to do a lot of things, but He does.
At each point, be it about the test of Abraham or the search that the Psalmist begged, it was for the benefit of mankind and not for God.
The Scriptures were written for mankind, not for God.
I ASSUME the computer will be in sync with the scanner and that the scanner will detect the product code correctly and aline it with the correct purchase price.
Perhaps it is the same with the discussion in this thread.
We assume that God being all knowing has no need to scan the "bar code" of the human heart, to search out the database for alignment to His perfect desire.
The Scriptures do present a dual perspective; a human perspective of God's work in time and space conformed to human understanding and experience, and also the perspective from God in which human understanding is "stretched" and must be relied upon by faith, alone.
At times the perspectives become stated as terms of being an "only," and that is when division and BB discussion gathers respondents into camps that may even sound unreasonable.
God has no need to search the hearts, but the Scriptures state that He does.
God has no need to try as a test the believers, but the Scriptures do state that He does.
God does not need to do a lot of things, but He does.
At each point, be it about the test of Abraham or the search that the Psalmist begged, it was for the benefit of mankind and not for God.
The Scriptures were written for mankind, not for God.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
And one of the intents of Scripture is to help man be able to relate to God. If we accept that God has the ability to search our hearts, what makes us think He lacks the ability to already know what's there?
He created us.
He exists outside of what we call time.
He knows our yesterdays, today, and tomorrow.
He knows our thoughts.
He knows ALL.
Searching our hearts is human vernacular for human understanding. AN all-knowing God is not running an inventory on our every day deeds and actions and thoughts because he doesn't have to.
Agreed! :thumbsup:
I voted no. Trust me an omnipotent all powerful God with unlimited power would have to be all Knowing.
Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
MB
And one of the intents of Scripture is to help man be able to relate to God. If we accept that God has the ability to search our hearts, what makes us think He lacks the ability to already know what's there?
God said, now I know, indicating that the test was for the purpose of learning what Abraham would do. (Genesis 22:12).
So one one side of the ledger we have verse after verse where God looks to learn something, or tests to learn something, and the other side says these verses do not mean what they say.
And on the other side of ledger, we have the verses that say God is all knowing. But we have no verse that says God is all knowing about everything imaginable. That assumption is added to the text in violation of all the scriptures that say do not add to the text. If we look at all these "all knowing" passages there is a common theme, God can know what is hidden in our hearts.
How so many people could embrace a doctrine that is so clearly man-made is beyond me.
God said, now I know, indicating that the test was for the purpose of learning what Abraham would do. (Genesis 22:12).
So one one side of the ledger we have verse after verse where God looks to learn something, or tests to learn something, and the other side says these verses do not mean what they say.
And on the other side of ledger, we have the verses that say God is all knowing. But we have no verse that says God is all knowing about everything imaginable. That assumption is added to the text in violation of all the scriptures that say do not add to the text. If we look at all these "all knowing" passages there is a common theme, God can know what is hidden in our hearts.
How so many people could embrace a doctrine that is so clearly man-made is beyond me.
You have added to scripture, and then have the unmitigated gall, the unabashed temerity to suggest someone other than yourself is deviating from scripture?
9 “As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and (A)serve Him with [a]a whole heart and a willing mind; (B)for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. (C)If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.
Every "if/then" statement in the bible screams that God bases his actions on what we choose to do, not on what he has predestined us to do.
Exhaustive determinism is false doctrine folks, just read your bible.
This is like saying "my Jesus is God...your Jesus is a man". Ignorant.
I find this to be an interesting discussion....While, I am decidedly of the opinion that God never "learns" anything, and therefore take the position that his Omniscience is indeed exhaustive...I do not find the position of those who disagree to be mere "heresy" etc...Consider: Christ himself indeed "emptied" himself of some of his Divine attributes (at least in certain circumstances, and only at will). This is not to say that he didn't Posses them....nor is it to say that he COULD not have taken them back up at any point...He did indeed raise himself by his own power no? That being said...he did not in fact, "know" when his return would be....only the Father knew that.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
This tells me, (as do other Scriptures) that God is at least capable of placing certain limits upon himself in certain circumstances and only at will.
It would be nice if those who maintain exhaustive Omniscience as I do, would at least entertain some of the ideas presented by our noble opposition and learn from them.
I suppose that the better way to view it is this...it is not as though suggesting that God can "learn" should necessarily be relegated to some imputation upon his Omnipotence...but rather, at least, the possibility that he is indeed capable of imposing his own limits at will. I do not specifically argue that he does, but that it is at least not impossible. Similarly...there are those who feel that to exhaustivley foreknow all outcomes of creaturely volition or "choices" is to render them "determined" or not, in fact, "real" choices...I believe a lot of O.T's think this way...I patently disagree with them about that....inasmuch as I maintain that all choices can be known and also not determined. I do not think that makes them "heretics" though.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
This tells me, (as do other Scriptures) that God is at least capable of placing certain limits upon himself in certain circumstances and only at will.
It would be nice if those who maintain exhaustive Omniscience as I do, would at least entertain some of the ideas presented by our noble opposition and learn from them.
I suppose that the better way to view it is this...it is not as though suggesting that God can "learn" should necessarily be relegated to some imputation upon his Omnipotence...but rather, at least, the possibility that he is indeed capable of imposing his own limits at will. I do not specifically argue that he does, but that it is at least not impossible. Similarly...there are those who feel that to exhaustivley foreknow all outcomes of creaturely volition or "choices" is to render them "determined" or not, in fact, "real" choices...I believe a lot of O.T's think this way...I patently disagree with them about that....inasmuch as I maintain that all choices can be known and also not determined. I do not think that makes them "heretics" though.
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