Does God love everyone?

[Herald]

Yet historically, in reformed teaching, God's common grace or perhaps another wording would be omnibenevolence or general love (not to be confused with His specific Love [which Dr. Bob stated earlier in the thread]) is part of the doctrines of Mainstream Calvinism.. spoken to even in Westminister Standard which states:


Now why do I speak of the 'Free offer' instead of God's love? because they were typically seen as one and the same, or at least speaking to the same idea.

For instance how about J. I. Packer's view:

or someone ealier? how about what about John Howe The Goodness of God, Part II preached in 1691:



As with one of my previous post to which I reference back to Phil Johnson of Spurgeon.net, and Monergism, who both stated that a denial of common grace, or that God has no love for the non-elect are views found in Hyper-Cal (though it does not make one an HC), it might better be said that it reveals a tendency toward HC.

here is another one from CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry) which is also Calvinistic states:

Remember, these are 5 point Cals making these statements, not me (who is a non-cal)... so I believe their views and great many others hold a great deal weight to subject of love with respect to the Calvinistic position.

Of course there are disagreements in the ranks, but it stands out quite clearly there must be something to the position even if you don't agree.

Allan,

First, let me thank you for your irenic reply. It is a rare occurrence on this board. Thank you.

I am at a disadvantage in quoting supporting authors since I am traveling this week and on my mobile device via Tapatalk.

There is no monolithic response on God's love from the Reformed camp just as there is none from the Arminian camp. I see a distinction between God's love and what is commonly referred to as common grace. God's love has always been expressed towards his covenant people. In the OC it was Israel and under the NC it is the saints. Even in Israel there was the subset of the true children of Abraham, the children of faith. God's love is salvific in nature since it leads to regeneration and sanctification.

Just my quick response as I wait for my Chinese take out.

 

[Allan]

Allan,

First, let me thank you for your irenic reply. It is a rare occurrence on this board. Thank you.

I am at a disadvantage in quoting supporting authors since I am traveling this week and on my mobile device via Tapatalk.

There is no monolithic response on God's love from the Reformed camp just as there is none from the Arminian camp. I see a distinction between God's love and what is commonly referred to as common grace. God's love has always been expressed towards his covenant people. In the OC it was Israel and under the NC it is the saints. Even in Israel there was the subset of the true children of Abraham, the children of faith. God's love is salvific in nature since it leads to regeneration and sanctification.

Just my quick response as I wait for my Chinese take out.

Thank you.
I agree that God has a specific love toward His children and would not argue over this point, ever.

But I would say that while there is no absolute monolithic view on God's love in the Reformed faith, there is a very very large portion of this group which historically held to the views the other Cals I referenced pointed out in relation to mainline Reformed Theology. That is why I bring them up as this is apparently something that is not so easily shown as simple slam dunk.

Could I add a note in relation to the OC? Is it not true that even Gentile pagan were brought into the fold of Israel and that Israel is not just descendants of Jacob? None of the other nations I know of were rejected or forbidden from coming into the Judism.

 

[Herald]

Thank you.
I agree that God has a specific love toward His children and would not argue over this point, ever.

But I would say that while there is no absolute monolithic view on God's love in the Reformed faith, there is a very very large portion of this group which historically held to the views the other Cals I referenced pointed out in relation to mainline Reformed Theology. That is why I bring them up as this is apparently something that is not so easily shown as simple slam dunk.

Could I add a note in relation to the OC? Is it not true that even Gentile pagan were brought into the fold of Israel and that Israel is not just descendants of Jacob? None of the other nations I know of were rejected or forbidden from coming into the Judism.

BTW Calvinist and Reformed are not necessarily synonymous. There are many self-described Calvinists who are nowhere near Reformed. I think of neo-Calvinists like Mark Driscoll and Matt Chandler.

I never brought up the notion that the view I hold to is a slam dunk. What I will say is those Reformed Calvinists who are supralapsarians see God's love and common grace as two different things.

As far as the covenant nation of Israel; it was supposed to a "light of revelation to the Gentiles". Gentiles such as Rahab and Ruth became true children of Abraham. While the nation failed miserably at being that light, it nonetheless had that as a God-given purpose. I still do not see how that equates to God's salvific love outside of those elect that were brought to faith by way of the covenant nation.

Of course, how this plays out in real life is different than theological conjecture. Proclaim the Gospel to all. Plead with all to believe. Trust God in the matter.

 

[Rippon]

I never said that I haven't read them. Some of my favorites.
J Vernon McGee, John F.Walvoord. James White, Aurthur Pink, A.W.Tozer, Josh Mcdowell, John Knotts, Salem Kirban, D.R Mc Connel,JR Church, Billy Sunday,Barlag Anderson, John Zachary, John Calvin, Bridges, Ankerberg, Weldon, John Mac Authur. Far to many to name them all. I've studdied [sic]them what they had to say and checked it all to see if it lined up with scripture. I also studdied[sic] how they said it and why they said it.
Did any of them have any effect on me?. Yes. Do I agree 100% with any of them? NO! But I do agree 100% with God's word and it has had an everlasting effect on me. I read it constantly.
Note some of the above named men are Calvinist.
MB

There you have it :John Knotts! LOL!

 

[Rippon]

Comentaries.[sic] I found them very helpful in disproving Calvinism.

You said the above in response to my question of what works of John Knox do you appreciate.

John Knox didn't write any commentaries. And he was an ardent Calvinist who had Calvin as a mentor in Geneva itself! He didn't do any disproving of Calvinism whatsoever.

 

[The Archangel]

There you have it :John Knotts! LOL!

John Knotts? Isn't he the brother of the guy who was on the Andy Griffith Show and Three's Company?

Sorry...couldn't resist.

The Archangel

 

[Rippon]

.But I did get a kick out of your mention of John "Knotts".Maybe you were thinking of that great theologian -- Don Knotts? You meant John Knox I'm sure.What works of his do you appreciate?

Hey,is this what you're talking about Archangel?

 

[The Archangel]

Hey,is this what you're talking about Archangel?

THAT'S the guy!!!!

The Archangel

 

[The Biblicist]

I was reading a blog where the woman was saying that God hates gays and they will never be saved.

Then on a bulletin board, I hear a lot of the unsaved saying that God is love and He loves everybody.

So does God love everyone? I know He hates sin but what about the sinners?

His redemptive love is found only "in Christ" (Jn. 3;16; Eph. 1:4) while outside of Christ there is wrath and no salvation - Jn. 3:36.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

His redemptive love is found only "in Christ" (Jn. 3;16; Eph. 1:4) while outside of Christ there is wrath and no salvation - Jn. 3:36.

Bingo ...raying:

 

[Winman]

If God doesn't love everyone, then how do you KNOW God loves you?

I would love all of you Calvinists to explain to me exactly how you know God loves you in particular and how that you know for a certainty that you are one of God's elect.

Seriously, please explain how you KNOW this.

 

[SovereignMercy]

If God doesn't love everyone, then how do you KNOW God loves you?

I would love all of you Calvinists to explain to me exactly how you know God loves you in particular and how that you know for a certainty that you are one of God's elect.

Seriously, please explain how you KNOW this.

He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

I know because I only trust in Him, not in anything I have done or will do. The fruit of my belief comes from Him as well.

You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

 

[quantumfaith]

If God doesn't love everyone, then how do you KNOW God loves you?

I would love all of you Calvinists to explain to me exactly how you know God loves you in particular and how that you know for a certainty that you are one of God's elect.

Seriously, please explain how you KNOW this.

Winman, this is a great question. One that countless people wrestle with multiple times in their life. Truly, there is no "equation based" non-metaphysical proof of one being a member of the household of faith. Rather this "knowledge" is one of confidence and FAITH in the statements of scripture.

If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)

 

[The Biblicist]

If God doesn't love everyone, then how do you KNOW God loves you?

ANSWER: 1 Thess. 1:4-5

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

1. The gospel comes in power to those God loves
2. The gospel comes with the Holy Spirit
3. The gospel comes with that assurance
4. The gospel comes with noticable change of your person

I would love all of you Calvinists to explain to me exactly how you know God loves you in particular and how that you know for a certainty that you are one of God's elect.

When I was 13 sitting on the last row next to the exit because I did not like church, and minding my own business, God did a work within me that I was concious of and knew I had no part in doing because it smote me with power of conviction of my sins, turned me from the desire of sin and wrought within me a desire I never had before and that was to willingly come to Christ believing in him to save me from my sins. What accompanied this inward transformation was joy unspeakable and full of glory and assurance of God's love an saving grace because it was NOT I THAT DID IT but God by his sovereign power and I witnessed that power being performed within me and I KNOW whom I have believed because it was NOT OF ME or BY ME and my whole inward nature changed from that point forward. I no longer sat on the last pew wanting to get out of church. I no longer had to be pressured to read God's Word. I no longer wanted to fight, lie, cheat and steal. I was made a whole different me. That is how I know.

 

[psalms109:31]

God loves the world that He sent His Son just as the word and the Holy Spirit has said. It is not mens understanding or what they know as world, but as God sees the world.

Men are resposible not God. When God places life and death before us and we are on the wrong path and stay on that path you are paying the consequences for this.

When our sovereign God said that He rather us to repent and live tells me many people do not know what the sovereignty of God is.

You are a responsible free agency the devil did not make you do it, the serpent did not make you do it, the women did not make you do it and God did not make you do it. It is your own evil desire. You only have yourself to blame, so repent and live.

God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Paul was not lying i am not lying. We are responsible to repent (turn to God through Jesus)and live then we become the new creation chosen before the foundation of the world changed by God and His word.

 

[Skandelon]

How do we know they won't be saved? There are people who were gay, and became believers and gave up that lifestyle.

But I've known gluttons and gossips get saved and never give up their lifestyle? Double standard? Just asking...

 

[Luke2427]

I was reading a blog where the woman was saying that God hates gays and they will never be saved.

Then on a bulletin board, I hear a lot of the unsaved saying that God is love and He loves everybody.

So does God love everyone? I know He hates sin but what about the sinners?

The saying "God hates sin but loves the sinner" is, like all bumper sticker theology, an extraordinary oversimplification and so much so that it is patently false.

Psalm 5:5 says, "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Not just "works" of iniquity but the "workers" themselves.

And at the same time, God loves them. "I have no pleasure saith the Lord in the death of the wicked..."

So, it is complex.

Backward fundamentalist types who need everything to be super simple, bumper sticker worthy and solidly black and white will never get it.

Intelligent people, who don't mind struggling with ideas and gray areas will embrace the truth of the Scripture on this matter.

I despise child molesters. At the same time, I am sorry to see them suffer in certain circumstances.

I know of some who have not seen the outside of 6' by 8' cell in years.

And while part of me is greatly gratified that they suffer, another part says- "I wish they would just put them to death so that they would not have to live that way." Also, that same part of me says, "I want to share the Gospel with them."

If my feelings towards them can be complex, how much more can God's?

 

[Skandelon]

The bible teaches that God loves mankind because He chooses to love (Deuteronomy 7:6-7). He does this because He is loving (God is love, 1 John 4:8), not because He is under some obligation to love everyone equally. He is not obligated to love anyone or to save anyone. He graciously chooses to save whosoever believes because He is LOVE.

Nothing but God's own sovereign will compels Him to love sinful man. That must be the case, since there is absolutely nothing in us worthy of even a tiny degree His love.

He is patient with sinners, desiring for all to be reconciled to him. Why? Because He is Love. Likewise, He will not be mocked, a man reaps what he sows. Why? Because He is just. These are not at odds.

 

[Gorship]

The bible teaches that God loves mankind because He chooses to love (Deuteronomy 7:6-7). He does this because He is loving (God is love, 1 John 4:8), not because He is under some obligation to love everyone equally. He is not obligated to love anyone or to save anyone. He graciously chooses to save whosoever believes because He is LOVE.

Nothing but God's own sovereign will compels Him to love sinful man. That must be the case, since there is absolutely nothing in us worthy of even a tiny degree His love.

He is patient with sinners, desiring for all to be reconciled to him. Why? Because He is Love. Likewise, He will not be mocked, a man reaps what he sows. Why? Because He is just. These are not at odds.

OH just want to add

"John 3:16-17

King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

everyone forgets that awesome verse 17!

 

[Skandelon]

Good addition BaptistJG!