I read that years ago online when I was first reading about the subject. Now, I cannot find the pages I was reading back then. Sorry - does this make you feel better? :tonofbricks:
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Does It Matter
- Thread starter Shortandy
- Start date
I read that years ago online when I was first reading about the subject. Now, I cannot find the pages I was reading back then. Sorry - does this make you feel better? :tonofbricks:
It is the parent's job to raise their children up in the admonition of the Lord and not the schools. Unfortunately, too many parents are failing to do their jobs.
#1: This does not excuse the government teaching old earth myth, and evolutionary religion in school.
#2 Nothing in the Bible says we cannot hire people to train our kids.
#3 If the government is going to teach this silly unscientific stuff, they need to leave my tax money alone.
This is a HUGE HUGE deal...and should not be made light of, or backed down from.
1. Since God did not say when the beginning was, you are just guessing that it is young and others are guessing it is old. Science is simply fallible man looking at nature/creation and interpreting how it all works and if they can where it came from. The Bible says that in the beginning God created and that is what I believe. I am not sure about the age of the creation, but I generally lean towards young. The fact that there is no written history older than 6000 years (or so) is one of the reasons for me.
2. You are responsible for the spiritual health of you children. You cannot shirk that responsibility and then blame someone else for undesirable results. In the OT a child was brought to the preist to raise in service of the Lord in the temple - a public school teacher is not a preist and many (IMO most) do not care about the spiritual welfare of the kids they teach.
3. Run for the local school board or whatever office controls the schools curriculum and work to change it. Or, you can teach you kids yourself.
Steven2006
New Member
I have no problem embracing six 24hr days, and if pressed choose this as my answer. It stands to reason that when God created everything it would appear older anyway. Did Adam appear to be a man of say thirty, or just days old? I would assume if one would have been there to cut down a tree it would have been created complete and had rings in them even if they were only days old. I would assume everything would have appeared perfectly as the age God intended them to appear. God didn't just only make seeds and let everything grow in it's own time he created them with an appropriate age, just like Adam.
That said I have always left one door open that the earth could be older. Not man, nor animal mind you but the earth, and this is the verse that gives me that pause.
Gen 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;
It is clear that on the fourth day God gave us the signs in order to keep our calendars, days and years. So it is crystal clear that there have been 24hr days from that point on. However it is not as clear before that. We know that time to God is not the same as time to us, so how do we really know how long those first few days were in our time when God hadn't yet created our way of keeping them?
That said I have always left one door open that the earth could be older. Not man, nor animal mind you but the earth, and this is the verse that gives me that pause.
Gen 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;
It is clear that on the fourth day God gave us the signs in order to keep our calendars, days and years. So it is crystal clear that there have been 24hr days from that point on. However it is not as clear before that. We know that time to God is not the same as time to us, so how do we really know how long those first few days were in our time when God hadn't yet created our way of keeping them?
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There is one major problem with this: the numbering. If I say "Look, dogs!" and start counting "One dog, two dogs, three dogs" it is an unspoken truth that these are all "dogs."
So, the day that was the 4th "day" was a day, just like the first "day." If one was a day, and the other was a million years, this would be downright deceitful on God's part.
I am reading and reading and reading and you guys keep going back and forth. However, the question has not been answered.
If it was not 6 24 hour days then how do the miracles of Christ make sense? How does the theistic evolutionary view help us interpret these? For the Bible seems to put a great deal of importance on the spoken word of God and how that word causes things to happen and be sustained.
I am asking these questions for I want to have a full-circle, systematic type of theology and I personally do not see how anyone holding to anything other than 6, 24 hour days can accomplish this. For when Christ spoke and the miracles happened immediately He was asserting and demonstrating His divine nature (that He was God). God spoke in the beginning and things happend immediately, Christ spoke and things happened immediately. This makes sense...this fits together. But if God spoke and things happend over a long period of time and then Jesus spoke and things happed immediately the picture is not clear and the message is lost.
If it was not 6 24 hour days then how do the miracles of Christ make sense? How does the theistic evolutionary view help us interpret these? For the Bible seems to put a great deal of importance on the spoken word of God and how that word causes things to happen and be sustained.
I am asking these questions for I want to have a full-circle, systematic type of theology and I personally do not see how anyone holding to anything other than 6, 24 hour days can accomplish this. For when Christ spoke and the miracles happened immediately He was asserting and demonstrating His divine nature (that He was God). God spoke in the beginning and things happend immediately, Christ spoke and things happened immediately. This makes sense...this fits together. But if God spoke and things happend over a long period of time and then Jesus spoke and things happed immediately the picture is not clear and the message is lost.
C4K seemed pretty bent out of shape over it, so I thought seeing me getting stoned might make him feel better. :smilewinkgrin:
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Not 'bent out of shape' my friend, just cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would post unresearched material as evidence to support their point of view. Why would you beating yourself up make me 'feel better?' Better to simply acknowledge your error.
By all indications in his writings and teachings this man was our brother in Christ. Whether we agree with his research or not may we honour his memory as one who took a stand for Christ in a day false teaching was quickly overtaking this little island. There were not many men willing to stand for the scriptures in Ireland in his day.
I was just thinking, do we normally see immediate miracles in this day and age, or is the time spread out.
In fact, we often criticize those preacher who have healing services. Then we will praise God after we have prayed for someone who has been in a hospital for 3 months, and then has been cured.
I am not trying to downplay the 6/24 creation, but just something to consider.
Salty
Shortandy--don't know if this is good or bad teaching, but when I was a kid there wasn't all this storm over this. There were a few radicals holding to evolutionary creation, but since they were orthodox to the local Baptist church in every other way it wasn't an issue 
Most folks believed in gap theory, citing one problem with young earth 6/24 as often taught is that it leaves no time frame for the fall of Satan. As long as they didn't thump anyone with their Scofield Reference Bible they were tolerated also But it is a fair bet to say some were 6/24, just not young earth. Most could see that there were places in the Bible where geneologies were "collapsed" or you got the Cliff note version, which might be expanded in another place. Due to that, they accepted that the Bible was accurate but there was no need to reject all modern science concerning the possible age of the earth.
In the eyes of the latter folks, there was room for mystery. They didn't seem to believe they had to have absolutely everything in the universe sorted into neat little boxes of understanding. Some things they were content to say "I know God did it. I just don't know how. I do have an opinion, however."
But every last one of them DID believe in God as Creator, and Genesis as accurate. They definitely did not see it as myth or allegory. They took it as truth, just didn't claim God ever intended to reveal the whole mystery of creation to us. Got that from the book of Job, I guess.
Hope this helps.
Most folks believed in gap theory, citing one problem with young earth 6/24 as often taught is that it leaves no time frame for the fall of Satan. As long as they didn't thump anyone with their Scofield Reference Bible they were tolerated also But it is a fair bet to say some were 6/24, just not young earth. Most could see that there were places in the Bible where geneologies were "collapsed" or you got the Cliff note version, which might be expanded in another place. Due to that, they accepted that the Bible was accurate but there was no need to reject all modern science concerning the possible age of the earth.In the eyes of the latter folks, there was room for mystery. They didn't seem to believe they had to have absolutely everything in the universe sorted into neat little boxes of understanding. Some things they were content to say "I know God did it. I just don't know how. I do have an opinion, however."
But every last one of them DID believe in God as Creator, and Genesis as accurate. They definitely did not see it as myth or allegory. They took it as truth, just didn't claim God ever intended to reveal the whole mystery of creation to us. Got that from the book of Job, I guess.
Hope this helps.
If you are looking for a view point that is different than that offered here, you might try this book:
"The Science of God" by Gerald L. Schroeder
The author is a trained scientist and Bible theologian who offers a bit more than the pseudo science and theology one often gets.
TC, google Maimonides and/or Nahmanides, one of these might be the one to whom you refer.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Genesis 1:5God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
I do not believe the new day was even started until after the seperation of day and night
I do not believe the new day was even started until after the seperation of day and night
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The evening and the morning was the first day. The evening and the morning was the second day. The evening and the morning was the third day. Jesus said the only sign he would give that he was the Messiah was that he would be in the tomb three days and three nights. A few days before he was put in the tomb, he stated that there were twelve hours of light in a day leaving I assume there is also twelve hours of night. He died about the ninth hour. They went and requested his body took it down from the cross and prepared it for burial and buried it in a near by tomb because the sabbath was very, very near. What time of the day must he arise?
I agree your total theology is important.
Not picking on you at all; but when I read the above I had a big chuckle.
Seems rather amusing some will argue high and low for a literal 6-24hr reading when it comes to the creation account; but turn right around and not take other scripture literally.
The more I read, the more I see the truth of Eze 14 when God says He will re-inforce whatever theology man has in his heart.
Actually they grow hanging from the celing of caverns under ground and there counter parts grow from the same water drips up to meet them the ones I have seen weren't covered by sediments.
I liked your story of your water heater but what it formed what not a stalactite. Stalactites are made from the lime deposits the water dripped down through. Not to mention the water is cold not hot. The heat from the hot water heater will sometimes heat both the incomming line and out going line not to mention your water deposits are most likely gypson a deposit most common to the bottom of tea kettles.
The reason it takes so long for a stalactites to form is because each drop of water does not completely evaporate. it usually drops to the ground below and starts a stalagmite coming up from the floor. They grow to be as much a 30 to 40 feet in diameter weighing hundreds of thousands of tons. It must have been some pipe fitting your stalactite grew from. LOL.
When I was in school we verified that it takes a stalactite 100 years to grow one half inch in length. While your comparing a hot water drip that evaporates entirely. The water drops that form stalactites hardly ever completely evaporates but continues on to the floor of the cavern and forms pools at the bottom. The humidity inside a cavern is very high and usually stays around 60 degrees temp 24-7
Still this isn't the only evidence. Coal beds are another problem for the 6 day creation theory. Trees shed there leaves in the fall these leaves have made coal beds miles deep. They becaome coal after there own weight crushes them in to solid matter. Again it takes thousands of years longer than just a 6000 year history to form coal.
MB