You have no clue. You just keep spewing your own independent claims and assign them to those whom you despise. Your ignorance is obvious.
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Does Love Require Free Will?
- Thread starter Mark Corbett
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I quoted Job 1 and 2.
Go read it and see.
You desperately try to move the goal posts in order to create a god in your own image.
No one seeks after God, as we all have turned astray. God stated that, was he wrong?
I understand that apart from Gods work men would never willingly come. I think our disagreement may be simply that I believe this work of God is one wrought in our very nature as God gives us a new spirit, a new heart, and puts His Spirit in us. I also appeal to Paul when he declared his accomplishments as "not I but Christ".
God grants to his elect a new heart/mind concerning their sin condition and must trust in Jesus to get saved.
Sigh... see vs 12 in chapter 1 and vs 6 in chapter 2.
I am amazed at your desperate need to make your god in your image.
I believe that salvation is the work of God by which He creates us in Christ. I don't believe that God gives us a new heart/spirit in order that we can be saved, but that this supernatural act of God is salvation itself.
God never said that. Learn to read.
Let me prove using the same stupid logic that all mankind is always doing good.
Psalms 53
1The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God,”
They are corrupt, and have committed abominable injustice;
There is no one who does good.
2God has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there is anyone who understands,
Who seeks after God.
3Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.
Lets look at chapters before and after.
I guess we are always holy! ALL Mankind everywhere!
Psalms 23
1The LORD is my shepherd,
I shall not want.
2He makes me lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside quiet waters.
3He restores my soul;
He guides me in the paths of righteousness
For His name’s sake.
4Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I fear no evil, for You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
5You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
You have anointed my head with oil;
My cup overflows.
6Surely goodness and lovingkindness will follow me all the days of my life,
And I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.
I GUESS all mankind is always seeking the lord continuously!
PSALM 105
3Glory in His holy name;
Let the heart of those who seek the LORD be glad.
4Seek the LORD and His strength;
Seek His face continually.
The reason Paul pointed out those verses where Israel failed is to show that ISRAEL did not behave BETTER then Gentiles.
I am amazed you even use a computer.
Post the verse here. You can't because there is no request.
You are a LIAR.
No where does SATAN make a request.
Your answer is about as good as "its in the bible" The verse does not exist.
SATAN does not make ANY REQUEST.
Do you even know the meaning of REQUEST? You don't know how to read or you are a LIAR. Pick one.
Your desperation to run from the truth that God said "Yes" to Satan and thus ordained the trials and suffering of Job is obvious. Clearly the God of the Bible is not the God you want. You have created a god that fits your little box...just as you imagine him to be. However, the God of the Bible ordains and says yes to great suffering of His saints. The God of the Bible dealt the death stroke on God the Son because of our sin. You need to come to grips with God's ordained sovereignty and accept that God does say yes to evil being brought upon us. Even more so...God does so out of a great love for us that surpasses our understanding. God is good, all the time and all the time, God is good.
Time for you to grow up, utilyan.
At no point does Satan ASK "Hey God can I go ruin Job's day?"
The way it goes is God asks Satan hey what you think of Job. Satan says well he only likes you because you spoil him with good things.
And then its God's idea to put job to the test. And he didn't have to send Satan, He wasn't proving anything to himself, or to Job. He could have sent Darth Vader to ruin Job's day.
Show me the VERSE THE LINE WHERE SATAN ASKS GOD.
Satan could say well if you turn off the SUN it will be night time, That does not mean Satan is asking God to turn off the SUN.
10“Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11“But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face.”
That is not a REQUEST. That is him saying if you take everything away from him he will curse you to your face.
No where in there does it say Hey let me go give Job a hard time. God could have picked anyone he wanted to give hard time.
The entire point of the exercise God is educating Satan showing Satan why he is wrong about Job.
Ill show you who hates the bible.
Amen Jesus Christ is LORD!
You are not going to give an answer here!
Tail between the legs!
No CHEATING! Don't look at the bible yet. Tell us which scripture you think is true and which is a FAKE LIE.
Is it A or B?
Any REAL CHRISTIAN would have no trouble telling me which is the right scripture, because they love the Lord and they love holy scriptures.
A
Romans 10:10
10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
B
Romans 10:10
10for with the heart a person believes after being made righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, after salvation.
A
1 Corinthians 1:21
21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
B
1 Corinthians 1:21
21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to cause belief in those he saved.
A
Ephesians 1
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
B
Ephesians 1
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, ye believed,
A
Romans 5
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
B
Romans 5
2By whom also we have access by grace into this faith wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Amen Jesus Christ is LORD!
You are not going to give an answer here!
Tail between the legs!
No CHEATING! Don't look at the bible yet. Tell us which scripture you think is true and which is a FAKE LIE.
Is it A or B?
Any REAL CHRISTIAN would have no trouble telling me which is the right scripture, because they love the Lord and they love holy scriptures.
A
Romans 10:10
10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
B
Romans 10:10
10for with the heart a person believes after being made righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, after salvation.
A
1 Corinthians 1:21
21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
B
1 Corinthians 1:21
21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to cause belief in those he saved.
A
Ephesians 1
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
B
Ephesians 1
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, ye believed,
A
Romans 5
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
B
Romans 5
2By whom also we have access by grace into this faith wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Utilyan, did God ordain Job's suffering at the hand of Satan?
You are desperately working to remove God from choosing to bring suffering to Job.
God said "yes" to Satan. God ordained Job's suffering and grief.
You cannot dance your way around what God chose to do in Job's life. That God, who ordained Job's suffering, is the same God who loved Job immensely.
That God, who ordained Jesus death, burial and resurrection, is the same God who said "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.
That God is the same God who tells us to pick up our cross and follow Him.
That loving, Sovereign God, ordains suffering toward His saints. Why? Because God knows it is good and it makes us in the image of Christ.
Now, go put down your pacifier and meet your God rather than conjure up your wimpy god made in your own image.
God does not say YES to Satan only YOU DO.
Why don't you WRITE out the verse where God says YES to Satan's request?
Because that verse doesn't exist.
Hey you say God killed Jesus SAY THAT THEN!
God is not Evil. I already gave clear passage he does not even tempt people to sin let alone force them to sin. 1 Corinthians 10
You are not a bible believer and you make half of it all up.
You want to blame God for your sins. Your sinful lifestyle needs a license.
What you need to do is repent and accept responsibility for the sins you have committed.
God ordained that I come down and whoop your sorry fake god. If he didn't want me to I'd be dead already.
Of course God is not evil. When God took his wrath for sin out on Jesus it was not evil. When God ordained Job's suffering at the hands of Satan it was not evil.
Utilyan, you have come up with your own concept of what is good and what is evil. You then demand that God fit into your definition. You have no right or authority to demand that the Sovereign God of the Universe fit into your conception of good and evil.
Habakkuk 1:2-17
[2]How long, O lord, must I call for help? But you do not listen! “Violence is everywhere!” I cry, but you do not come to save.
[3]Must I forever see these evil deeds? Why must I watch all this misery? Wherever I look, I see destruction and violence. I am surrounded by people who love to argue and fight.
[4]The law has become paralyzed, and there is no justice in the courts. The wicked far outnumber the righteous, so that justice has become perverted.
[5]The lord replied, “Look around at the nations; look and be amazed! For I am doing something in your own day, something you wouldn’t believe even if someone told you about it.
[6]I am raising up the Babylonians, a cruel and violent people. They will march across the world and conquer other lands.
[7]They are notorious for their cruelty and do whatever they like.
[8]Their horses are swifter than cheetahs and fiercer than wolves at dusk. Their charioteers charge from far away. Like eagles, they swoop down to devour their prey.
[9]“On they come, all bent on violence. Their hordes advance like a desert wind, sweeping captives ahead of them like sand.
[10]They scoff at kings and princes and scorn all their fortresses. They simply pile ramps of earth against their walls and capture them!
[11]They sweep past like the wind and are gone. But they are deeply guilty, for their own strength is their god.”
[12]O lord my God, my Holy One, you who are eternal— surely you do not plan to wipe us out? O lord, our Rock, you have sent these Babylonians to correct us, to punish us for our many sins.
[13]But you are pure and cannot stand the sight of evil. Will you wink at their treachery? Should you be silent while the wicked swallow up people more righteous than they?
[14]Are we only fish to be caught and killed? Are we only sea creatures that have no leader?
[15]Must we be strung up on their hooks and caught in their nets while they rejoice and celebrate?
[16]Then they will worship their nets and burn incense in front of them. “These nets are the gods who have made us rich!” they will claim.
[17]Will you let them get away with this forever? Will they succeed forever in their heartless conquests?
[2]How long, O lord, must I call for help? But you do not listen! “Violence is everywhere!” I cry, but you do not come to save.
[3]Must I forever see these evil deeds? Why must I watch all this misery? Wherever I look, I see destruction and violence. I am surrounded by people who love to argue and fight.
[4]The law has become paralyzed, and there is no justice in the courts. The wicked far outnumber the righteous, so that justice has become perverted.
[5]The lord replied, “Look around at the nations; look and be amazed! For I am doing something in your own day, something you wouldn’t believe even if someone told you about it.
[6]I am raising up the Babylonians, a cruel and violent people. They will march across the world and conquer other lands.
[7]They are notorious for their cruelty and do whatever they like.
[8]Their horses are swifter than cheetahs and fiercer than wolves at dusk. Their charioteers charge from far away. Like eagles, they swoop down to devour their prey.
[9]“On they come, all bent on violence. Their hordes advance like a desert wind, sweeping captives ahead of them like sand.
[10]They scoff at kings and princes and scorn all their fortresses. They simply pile ramps of earth against their walls and capture them!
[11]They sweep past like the wind and are gone. But they are deeply guilty, for their own strength is their god.”
[12]O lord my God, my Holy One, you who are eternal— surely you do not plan to wipe us out? O lord, our Rock, you have sent these Babylonians to correct us, to punish us for our many sins.
[13]But you are pure and cannot stand the sight of evil. Will you wink at their treachery? Should you be silent while the wicked swallow up people more righteous than they?
[14]Are we only fish to be caught and killed? Are we only sea creatures that have no leader?
[15]Must we be strung up on their hooks and caught in their nets while they rejoice and celebrate?
[16]Then they will worship their nets and burn incense in front of them. “These nets are the gods who have made us rich!” they will claim.
[17]Will you let them get away with this forever? Will they succeed forever in their heartless conquests?
Habakkuk 2:1-20
[1]I will climb up to my watchtower and stand at my guardpost. There I will wait to see what the lord says and how he will answer my complaint.
[2]Then the lord said to me, “Write my answer plainly on tablets, so that a runner can carry the correct message to others.
[3]This vision is for a future time. It describes the end, and it will be fulfilled. If it seems slow in coming, wait patiently, for it will surely take place. It will not be delayed.
[4]“Look at the proud! They trust in themselves, and their lives are crooked. But the righteous will live by their faithfulness to God.
[5]Wealth is treacherous, and the arrogant are never at rest. They open their mouths as wide as the grave, and like death, they are never satisfied. In their greed they have gathered up many nations and swallowed many peoples.
[6]“But soon their captives will taunt them. They will mock them, saying, ‘What sorrow awaits you thieves! Now you will get what you deserve! You’ve become rich by extortion, but how much longer can this go on?’
[7]Suddenly, your debtors will take action. They will turn on you and take all you have, while you stand trembling and helpless.
[8]Because you have plundered many nations, now all the survivors will plunder you. You committed murder throughout the countryside and filled the towns with violence.
[9]“What sorrow awaits you who build big houses with money gained dishonestly! You believe your wealth will buy security, putting your family’s nest beyond the reach of danger.
[10]But by the murders you committed, you have shamed your name and forfeited your lives.
[11]The very stones in the walls cry out against you, and the beams in the ceilings echo the complaint.
[12]“What sorrow awaits you who build cities with money gained through murder and corruption!
[13]Has not the lord of Heaven’s Armies promised that the wealth of nations will turn to ashes? They work so hard, but all in vain!
[14]For as the waters fill the sea, the earth will be filled with an awareness of the glory of the lord.
[15]“What sorrow awaits you who make your neighbors drunk! You force your cup on them so you can gloat over their shameful nakedness.
[16]But soon it will be your turn to be disgraced. Come, drink and be exposed! Drink from the cup of the lord’s judgment, and all your glory will be turned to shame.
[17]You cut down the forests of Lebanon. Now you will be cut down. You destroyed the wild animals, so now their terror will be yours. You committed murder throughout the countryside and filled the towns with violence.
[18]“What good is an idol carved by man, or a cast image that deceives you? How foolish to trust in your own creation— a god that can’t even talk!
[19]What sorrow awaits you who say to wooden idols, ‘Wake up and save us!’ To speechless stone images you say, ‘Rise up and teach us!’ Can an idol tell you what to do? They may be overlaid with gold and silver, but they are lifeless inside.
[20]But the lord is in his holy Temple. Let all the earth be silent before him.”
[1]I will climb up to my watchtower and stand at my guardpost. There I will wait to see what the lord says and how he will answer my complaint.
[2]Then the lord said to me, “Write my answer plainly on tablets, so that a runner can carry the correct message to others.
[3]This vision is for a future time. It describes the end, and it will be fulfilled. If it seems slow in coming, wait patiently, for it will surely take place. It will not be delayed.
[4]“Look at the proud! They trust in themselves, and their lives are crooked. But the righteous will live by their faithfulness to God.
[5]Wealth is treacherous, and the arrogant are never at rest. They open their mouths as wide as the grave, and like death, they are never satisfied. In their greed they have gathered up many nations and swallowed many peoples.
[6]“But soon their captives will taunt them. They will mock them, saying, ‘What sorrow awaits you thieves! Now you will get what you deserve! You’ve become rich by extortion, but how much longer can this go on?’
[7]Suddenly, your debtors will take action. They will turn on you and take all you have, while you stand trembling and helpless.
[8]Because you have plundered many nations, now all the survivors will plunder you. You committed murder throughout the countryside and filled the towns with violence.
[9]“What sorrow awaits you who build big houses with money gained dishonestly! You believe your wealth will buy security, putting your family’s nest beyond the reach of danger.
[10]But by the murders you committed, you have shamed your name and forfeited your lives.
[11]The very stones in the walls cry out against you, and the beams in the ceilings echo the complaint.
[12]“What sorrow awaits you who build cities with money gained through murder and corruption!
[13]Has not the lord of Heaven’s Armies promised that the wealth of nations will turn to ashes? They work so hard, but all in vain!
[14]For as the waters fill the sea, the earth will be filled with an awareness of the glory of the lord.
[15]“What sorrow awaits you who make your neighbors drunk! You force your cup on them so you can gloat over their shameful nakedness.
[16]But soon it will be your turn to be disgraced. Come, drink and be exposed! Drink from the cup of the lord’s judgment, and all your glory will be turned to shame.
[17]You cut down the forests of Lebanon. Now you will be cut down. You destroyed the wild animals, so now their terror will be yours. You committed murder throughout the countryside and filled the towns with violence.
[18]“What good is an idol carved by man, or a cast image that deceives you? How foolish to trust in your own creation— a god that can’t even talk!
[19]What sorrow awaits you who say to wooden idols, ‘Wake up and save us!’ To speechless stone images you say, ‘Rise up and teach us!’ Can an idol tell you what to do? They may be overlaid with gold and silver, but they are lifeless inside.
[20]But the lord is in his holy Temple. Let all the earth be silent before him.”
Habakkuk 3:1-19
[1]This prayer was sung by the prophet Habakkuk:
[2]I have heard all about you, lord. I am filled with awe by your amazing works. In this time of our deep need, help us again as you did in years gone by. And in your anger, remember your mercy.
[3]I see God moving across the deserts from Edom, the Holy One coming from Mount Paran. His brilliant splendor fills the heavens, and the earth is filled with his praise.
[4]His coming is as brilliant as the sunrise. Rays of light flash from his hands, where his awesome power is hidden.
[5]Pestilence marches before him; plague follows close behind.
[6]When he stops, the earth shakes. When he looks, the nations tremble. He shatters the everlasting mountains and levels the eternal hills. He is the Eternal One!
[7]I see the people of Cushan in distress, and the nation of Midian trembling in terror.
[8]Was it in anger, lord, that you struck the rivers and parted the sea? Were you displeased with them? No, you were sending your chariots of salvation!
[9]You brandished your bow and your quiver of arrows. You split open the earth with flowing rivers.
[10]The mountains watched and trembled. Onward swept the raging waters. The mighty deep cried out, lifting its hands in submission.
[11]The sun and moon stood still in the sky as your brilliant arrows flew and your glittering spear flashed.
[12]You marched across the land in anger and trampled the nations in your fury.
[13]You went out to rescue your chosen people, to save your anointed ones. You crushed the heads of the wicked and stripped their bones from head to toe.
[14]With his own weapons, you destroyed the chief of those who rushed out like a whirlwind, thinking Israel would be easy prey.
[15]You trampled the sea with your horses, and the mighty waters piled high.
[16]I trembled inside when I heard this; my lips quivered with fear. My legs gave way beneath me, and I shook in terror. I will wait quietly for the coming day when disaster will strike the people who invade us.
[17]Even though the fig trees have no blossoms, and there are no grapes on the vines; even though the olive crop fails, and the fields lie empty and barren; even though the flocks die in the fields, and the cattle barns are empty,
[18]yet I will rejoice in the lord! I will be joyful in the God of my salvation!
[19]The Sovereign lord is my strength! He makes me as surefooted as a deer, able to tread upon the heights.(For the choir director: This prayer is to be accompanied by stringed instruments.)
[1]This prayer was sung by the prophet Habakkuk:
[2]I have heard all about you, lord. I am filled with awe by your amazing works. In this time of our deep need, help us again as you did in years gone by. And in your anger, remember your mercy.
[3]I see God moving across the deserts from Edom, the Holy One coming from Mount Paran. His brilliant splendor fills the heavens, and the earth is filled with his praise.
[4]His coming is as brilliant as the sunrise. Rays of light flash from his hands, where his awesome power is hidden.
[5]Pestilence marches before him; plague follows close behind.
[6]When he stops, the earth shakes. When he looks, the nations tremble. He shatters the everlasting mountains and levels the eternal hills. He is the Eternal One!
[7]I see the people of Cushan in distress, and the nation of Midian trembling in terror.
[8]Was it in anger, lord, that you struck the rivers and parted the sea? Were you displeased with them? No, you were sending your chariots of salvation!
[9]You brandished your bow and your quiver of arrows. You split open the earth with flowing rivers.
[10]The mountains watched and trembled. Onward swept the raging waters. The mighty deep cried out, lifting its hands in submission.
[11]The sun and moon stood still in the sky as your brilliant arrows flew and your glittering spear flashed.
[12]You marched across the land in anger and trampled the nations in your fury.
[13]You went out to rescue your chosen people, to save your anointed ones. You crushed the heads of the wicked and stripped their bones from head to toe.
[14]With his own weapons, you destroyed the chief of those who rushed out like a whirlwind, thinking Israel would be easy prey.
[15]You trampled the sea with your horses, and the mighty waters piled high.
[16]I trembled inside when I heard this; my lips quivered with fear. My legs gave way beneath me, and I shook in terror. I will wait quietly for the coming day when disaster will strike the people who invade us.
[17]Even though the fig trees have no blossoms, and there are no grapes on the vines; even though the olive crop fails, and the fields lie empty and barren; even though the flocks die in the fields, and the cattle barns are empty,
[18]yet I will rejoice in the lord! I will be joyful in the God of my salvation!
[19]The Sovereign lord is my strength! He makes me as surefooted as a deer, able to tread upon the heights.(For the choir director: This prayer is to be accompanied by stringed instruments.)
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