Does Scripture Teach That God Created All Music?

[Scripture More Accurately]

Sounds good. Make the much better and stronger case.

Quantrill

The more we use passages that directly show a point, the better and stronger the case we make.

Neither Is. 14 nor Ezek. 28 directly speaks about Satan's being worshiped or seeking to be worshiped. Passages such as Luke 4 and Rev. 9 (and other passages), however, either directly show this point or more directly imply it:

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Using these passages with Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 makes the case for Satan's seeking worship and being worshiped much better and stronger than using just Is. 14 and Ez. 28 does.

Making a more direct case that Satan has his own music for his worship, however, is much harder to do. It is not my intent in this thread to get wrapped up in trying to go into detail on that point because I think that it is enough to use the passages already treated to infer this more specific point.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

From the introduction to Psalm 18:

"To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David the servant of the LORD, who spoke to the LORD the words of this song on the day that the Lord delivered him from the hand of all of his enemies and from the hand of Saul. "

God is identified as the Chief Musician.

I do not think that is a reference to God. Many other Psalms have the same designation, which likely refers to the choir director. For instance,

Psalm 6:1 <To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David.> O LORD, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.

Psalm 39:1 <To the chief Musician, even to Jeduthun, A Psalm of David.> I said, I will take heed to my ways, that I sin not with my tongue: I will keep my mouth with a bridle, while the wicked is before me.

Psalm 45:1 <To the chief Musician upon Shoshannim, for the sons of Korah, Maschil, A Song of loves.> My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

Compare also,

Habakkuk 3:19 The LORD God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds' feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places. To the chief singer on my stringed instruments.

The word for "singer" here is the same Heb. word rendered "musician" at the beginning of many Psalms.

 

[SGO]

Yes I was wrong. The multiple uses in the other psalms shows that, thank you. But where is the choir in Psalm 18? It says David spoke these words of this song to the Lord. The choir, if there was one, was in heaven. But it could have been, and probably was, meant for corporate worship.

 

[Quantrill]

The more we use passages that directly show a point, the better and stronger the case we make.

Neither Is. 14 nor Ezek. 28 directly speaks about Satan's being worshiped or seeking to be worshiped. Passages such as Luke 4 and Rev. 9 (and other passages), however, either directly show this point or more directly imply it:

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Using these passages with Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 makes the case for Satan's seeking worship and being worshiped much better and stronger than using just Is. 14 and Ez. 28 does.

Making a more direct case that Satan has his own music for his worship, however, is much harder to do. It is not my intent in this thread to get wrapped up in trying to go into detail on that point because I think that it is enough to use the passages already treated to infer this more specific point.

Well, you said you could make a much better case. Now you say you can't.

So, just what was your point in arguing with me?

Quantrill

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Well, you said you could make a much better case. Now you say you can't.

So, just what was your point in arguing with me?

Quantrill

I have already shown you the thrust of what I meant about making a better case by providing specific statements that directly back up the inferences that you were drawing from Is. 14 and Ezek. 28. When the more explicit passages about the devil directly wanting/receiving actual worship are linked with these passages, making the inference that he would have his own music for his worship has stronger Scriptural support.

Perhaps, if you were to go back and reread our exchanges, you might see that all along I was only seeing if you had any more direct passages in Scripture to back up your point. I was not denying what you were saying; I was interested to see if you had anything further and more direct to support your point.

 

[Quantrill]

I have already shown you the thrust of what I meant about making a better case by providing specific statements that directly back up the inferences that you were drawing from Is. 14 and Ezek. 28. When the more explicit passages about the devil directly wanting/receiving actual worship are linked with these passages, making the inference that he would have his own music for his worship has stronger Scriptural support.

Perhaps, if you were to go back and reread our exchanges, you might see that all along I was only seeing if you had any more direct passages in Scripture to back up your point. I was not denying what you were saying; I was interested to see if you had anything further and more direct to support your point.

You provided nothing as a better argument that satan uses music in worship of himself. You made statements that you could. I said ok. Go ahead.

I don't need to go back and reread. I know what you said. You pushed the argument. Not me. If you don't have anything, fine. I have no problem with that either.

Quantrill

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Yes I was wrong. The multiple uses in the other psalms shows that, thank you. But where is the choir in Psalm 18? It says David spoke these words of this song to the Lord. The choir, if there was one, was in heaven. But it could have been, and probably was, meant for corporate worship.

If you compare Psalm 18 to 2 Sam. 22, you will see that the passages are almost identical, but with some differences.

Matthew Henry explains the connection this way,

"This psalm we met with before, in the history of David's life, 2 Sam. xxii. That was the first edition of it; here we have it revived, altered a little, and fitted for the service of the church. It is David's thanksgiving for the many deliverances God had wrought for him; these he desired always to preserve fresh in his own memory and to diffuse and entail the knowledge of them. . . . The title gives us the occasion of penning this psalm; we had it before (2 Sam. xxii. 1), only here we are told that the psalm was delivered to the chief musician, or precentor, in the temple-songs."

The probable explanation is that what David spoke to the Lord on a previous occasion was later incorporated into the collection of Psalms by whoever compiled them into the various books of the Psalms.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You provided nothing as a better argument that satan uses music in worship of himself. You made statements that you could. I said ok. Go ahead.

I don't need to go back and reread. I know what you said. You pushed the argument. Not me. If you don't have anything, fine. I have no problem with that either.

Quantrill

Ok, let's agree to disagree and leave it there. Thanks.

 

[SGO]

Ezekiel 28:13

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
every precious stone was thy covering,
the sardius, topaz, and the diamond,
the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper,
the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle,
and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets
and of thy pipes
was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

"...the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes" does the use of the word "workmanship" mean that he (Lucifer) made them and/or created them from his own ideas?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Ezekiel 28:13

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
every precious stone was thy covering,
the sardius, topaz, and the diamond,
the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper,
the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle,
and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets
and of thy pipes
was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

"...the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes" does the use of the word "workmanship" mean that he (Lucifer) made them and/or created them from his own ideas?

No, "workmanship" is the subject of the passive verb, "was prepared," which points to someone else (God) as the One who prepared that workmanship in that anointed cherub (cf. v. 14) in the day that he was created (another passive verb that points to God as the One who Created him).

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Some instruments mentioned as being in heaven:

*harp

Revelation 5:8

And when he had taken the book,
the four beasts and the four and twenty elders
fell down before the Lamb,
having every one of them harps
and golden vials full of odours,
which are the prayers of the saints.

Revelation 15:2

and I saw as it were
a sea of glass mingled with fire:
and them that had gotten victory over the beast,
and over his image,
and over his mark,
and over the number of his name,
stand on the sea of glass,
having harps of God.

*trumpet

Revelation 8:13,14

And I beheld,
and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven,
saying with a loud voice,
Woe, woe, woe
to the inhabiters of the earth
by reason of the other voices
of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!

*pipes and tabret (tambourine)

Ezekiel 28:13

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
every precious stone was thy covering,
the sardius, topaz, and the diamond,
the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper,
the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle,
and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets
and of thy pipes
was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

*viol (violin?)

Isaiah 14:11

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave,
and the noise of thy viols:
the worm is spread under thee,
and the worms over thee.



stringed, wind,and percussive instruments

If you carefully trace the flow of thought from Isaiah 14:4 to 14:11, you can see that 14:11 is not referring to Lucifer, but to the king of Babylon (14:4 ff.) The music spoken of in 14:11 is not Lucifer's music; it is the music of the king of Babylon.

The passage begins to speak of Lucifer in 14:12.

 

[SGO]

OK. Thanks. I'll just babble on.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

OK. Thanks. I'll just babble on.

I appreciate your interest in continuing to study and discuss the subject! Both Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 pose difficult interpretational challenges so we have to keep studying and asking God for illumination.

Based on other passages that do not have such interpretational problems, some of which you have already noted, we know that angels are musical beings who both sing and play musical instruments.

Because the devil is a fallen angel, we know therefore that he is a musical being, regardless of how we take what is said in Ezekiel 28 or Isaiah 14.

 

[robycop3]

God gave us the ability to make & perform music, not the actual music itself. Like a knife or ball bat, it can be used for good or for evil.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

God gave us the ability to make & perform music, not the actual music itself. Like a knife or ball bat, it can be used for good or for evil.

Can you support these statements from Scripture?

 

[SGO]

Does godly music go to the same place in the brain and/or spirit as earthy music? Do the place(s) differ when the music is instrumental or lyrical?
Does it matter?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Does godly music go to the same place in the brain and/or spirit as earthy music? Do the place(s) differ when the music is instrumental or lyrical?
Does it matter?

I have not studied what the Scripture may have to say about the answers to these questions so I cannot answer them knowledgeably. I know that some people have said some things about such differences.

 

[alexander284]

Did God create sex? Perhaps the same principle applies to music.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Did God create sex? Perhaps the same principle applies to music.

The Bible is very clear that humans do things in the realm of the former that God never intended for them to do. In the same way, using your line of argumentation would lead to holding the position that God did not create all music because humans have combined musical elements in ways that God never intended for them to do.

 

[robycop3]

Can you support these statements from Scripture?

See any Scripture saying God created music? Still, music exists.