Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
It was God's desire that Adam and Eve obeyed Him and chose life. But, because He created humans with the ability to choose (free will), that God did not compel them to do so.
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Double Predestination
- Thread starter Reynolds
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It was God's desire that Adam and Eve obeyed Him and chose life. But, because He created humans with the ability to choose (free will), that God did not compel them to do so.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Technically, it is God who is in charge of ETERNAL DAMNATION, not Calvinists. Hate the message, not the messenger. Also, it is "whosoever" that means "the elect" because the elect are the only ones who can/will believe. The "world" pretty much means "all the people groups".
(We certainly know that God does not love the "world" that he warns us "Do not be conformed to the world" or "Be in the world but not of the world".)
God loves "whosoever" (everyone, everywhere, for all time) for the purpose saving them. Even those who railed on Him while He was on the cross He asked the Father to forgive them of what they were doing at that moment. He hates what the world does that is in opposition to Him. Those are not the same thing.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Here is the main Calvinist, John Calvin on John 3:16, what do you think of his "Calvinism"?
"That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."
Except that both Jesus and paul themselves explained salvation in the Calvinistic model, not by the Free Will grace one!
Did Adam choose to sin outside of the Will of God? No , For God already had ordianed that the Cross of christ would be the remedy for that Fall!
There is NO Double Predestination given to us in that Confession.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
God has predestined their end result, but they themsleves place themselves into Hell...
God either ordaied the fall to happen for His greater glory, or he permitted the fall within His Will for His greater glory! Either way, the fall was within the will of God...
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Do you understand what you are saying? God does the predestining, which means exactly what? according to you, it means NOTHING! because these whom God predestinates, "place themselves into hell". This is classic DOUBLE-TALK! More Reformed nonsense!
John 10:27-28/1 Corinthians 2:14 Both disagree with you!says you!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
for His glory? WHERE in Genesis to Revelation is this VILE teaching, that God was somehow "glorified" by the fall of man???
Predestination in the bible refers to God directly determining the final end state for His elect, while he permits the remaining lost sinners to go off where they want to go, a place devoid of God!
Isaiah 53:1-12/Galatians 6:14 the prophet and the Apostle saw glory in it!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
In John 5:18 we read, "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.". So here we see that the Jews wanted to murder Jesus, for what He said to them. To these SAME Jews, it says in the next verse, "Then answered Jesus and said unto them...", and then goes on to say to THEM, "Verily, verily, I say unto you (PLURAL), He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (verse 24). An then goes on to tell these SAME Jews, "but these things I say, that ye might be saved"; (verse 34); and to these SAME Jews, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have ETERNAL LIFE: and they are they which testify of me. And YOU ARE NOT WILLING come to me, THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE LIFE" (verses 39-40). The Greek does not allow for these words to be understood, "they COULD NOT will", as though God was stopping them!
These MURDERING Jews, Jesus says He WANTED TO SAVE!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
complete rubbish!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
another ABUSE of the Word of God. Neither passage says that God is glorified in the fall of man, or that the lost will end up in hell.
It is not an abuse it is simply a disagreement on what it means. Abuse gives the connotation that there is intentionality. However, it is an evil doctrine.
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