Drink

[Amy.G]

So, would this include the hope of a man to be intimate with his wife? I'm just saying cuz otherwise some of us don't have much hope. :laugh:

TMI skan!

:laugh:

 

[agedman]

Example given in the priest line

We are priests and joint heirs with Christ - that is scripturally clear.

There was a specific law given to Aaron and the descendants that they did not follow. They were forbidden to take strong drink when they entered the temple (tabernacle). See: Lev 10

Paul states that our body is a tabernacle (temple).

Within us the Holy Spirit dwells just as in the temple (tabernacle) the presence of God dwelt.

Therefore, the Scripture clearly teaches that the believer is not to take any wine or strong drink - exceptions noted.

 

[Amy.G]

I'm going to guess it is Proverbs 31:6-7.

The only part that implies no hope is where it says to give strong drink to him that is perishing. I assume that means to someone who is dying. I guess agedman doesn't believe in morphine for those who are dying either.

I am grateful for the morphine my dad was given as he was dying.

 

[agedman]

Alcohol is ok, drunk not ok. Self-control is key and not partaking in the abuse that has gone on since it was discovered.

The argument to abstain from alcohol must be seen with a number of things expecially when using references that refer to abstaining to prevent Christians from stumbling.

Does this apply to a big home? People will idol you
A nice car? people may idol you
What about eating to much in general?
What about a massive collection of Bibles
I love amy's comment, what about addiction to Baptist board?
What about careers? that is a huge idol
What about clothes? Do we only wear white T shirts (which I love)
What about any of these and millions more that can cause modern Americans to stumble and fall into a trap?

Alcohol is a big deal today among many kids, but so is materialism and most of us love our things so in my mind that is as dangerous to their souls as alcohol.

just some thoughts

>>>>>>>>>

I would disagree that it is permissible to take an intoxicant (exception noted).

It is a matter of teaching that the Godly man does not sit at the seat of the scornful (wine is a mocker) and does not walk and stands in the way of the ungodly sinners (strong drink is raging).

I do not recall any other part of scripture that actually names two physical items as having actual human attributes. One has to be be actually living to rage and mock. That isn't found in meat, cars, houses, land, clothes, careers ... not even gluttony. If I am wrong on this point, please post a reference that applies.

Isaiah cried out against the priestly line who got to drinking so often that it was as bad as a sorority beer party. Look further in that passage for the rebuke and solution by God.

Secondly, there is a matter of separation unto God. That hasn't been considered in this thread.

 

[12strings]

Since we are sharing TMI... The propofol I recieved when I got my colonoscopy made me so out of it that I never covered my memory from about 6 hours of that day! It was just completely gone! I was probably more "drunk" durring that time than I could get from drinking 10 beers!

 

[Skandelon]

We are priests and joint heirs with Christ - that is scripturally clear.

There was a specific law given to Aaron and the descendants that they did not follow. They were forbidden to take strong drink when they entered the temple (tabernacle). See: Lev 10

Do we need to equally apply all the other requirements of the Levitical law for the priests while entering the temple?

Plus, doesn't the distinction of "while going into the temple" and the uniqueness for the levites tell you something about those who are not entering the temple as levites?

I'll make a deal with you. I'll grow out my sideburns but you let me keep my beer, okay?

 

[preachinjesus]

A person has to come to terms with what is the purpose and meaning of the description in Scriptures of what wine and strong drink really are.

The Scripture puts them in the unique position of having human characteristics of mocking and raging. Both are not at all part of the character of Christ, but of the demonic world order. We are implored not to be deceived in this matter.

Secondly, is that unless a person has "no hope" there is no other reason to give them "strong drink." Therefore, it is not appropriate to give it to yourself (if one is a believer) even in private - unless you have no hope in Christ.

Thirdly, I have read that some consider that Christ both made and drank intoxicants. That just does not fit with his character and holiness. If one in fact takes the Scriptures literally in that "wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging" then Christ would not be the pure lamb of God having consumed something that was purposed to control him. Nor would he provide what He (being the very Word of God) considered deceitful.

Some would say, but the legal level of being intoxicated ... It doesn't matter. Even if one micro cellular level was impacted by drink, The Christ would be blemished. He was offered drink twice on the cross. The first time it was water, but the second the water contained an intoxicant. He drank the first, the second he spit out. He could not allow the diminished capacity and enticement to evil at any level of the pure service He performed for His Father. How much of an example that presents to the believer in this day!

Paul (possibly under Dr. Luke's instruction) told Timothy to take a bit of wine to settle the stomach. That is medicinal purpose.

The last argument resides with those who would state that when a person took a long journey to temple, they were permitted to drink.

There is medical reasoning that could be applied. However that verse also states that the person can do "whatever his soul desires." What if he desired something morally degrading? The point is quickly stated that other scriptures would hinder that thinking. My point, too, for the balance of Scriptures is against the consumption of a intoxicant with the noted exceptions.

Yeah, maybe I should have been more explicit....I'm looking for actual Scriptural points not ad hoc commentary sans biblical references.

I'd love to see where consuming alcohol is explicitly forbidden in Scripture.

 

[12strings]

Agedman: For clarification, are we to assume you believe the "wine" Jesus drank and made was grape-juice?

 

[preachinjesus]

We are priests and joint heirs with Christ - that is scripturally clear.

There was a specific law given to Aaron and the descendants that they did not follow. They were forbidden to take strong drink when they entered the temple (tabernacle). See: Lev 10

Paul states that our body is a tabernacle (temple).

Within us the Holy Spirit dwells just as in the temple (tabernacle) the presence of God dwelt.

Therefore, the Scripture clearly teaches that the believer is not to take any wine or strong drink - exceptions noted.

Friend no offense intended but, did you hurt yourself with this hermeneutical stretch?

Believers today are descendants of the Aaronic Priesthood? Now that is an interesting claim!

 

[agedman]

The only part that implies no hope is where it says to give strong drink to him that is perishing. I assume that means to someone who is dying. I guess agedman doesn't believe in morphine for those who are dying either.

I am grateful for the morphine my dad was given as he was dying.

Actually, I am very grateful for modern medical help.

However, the point you made would make it even less necessary for any true believer to take an intoxicant (exceptions noted).

 

[preachinjesus]

Since we are sharing TMI... The propofol I recieved when I got my colonoscopy made me so out of it that I never covered my memory from about 6 hours of that day! It was just completely gone! I was probably more "drunk" durring that time than I could get from drinking 10 beers!

In recalling several surgical procedures I've had in the past ten or so years I honestly can't remember anything after I was asked to start counting backwards.

The subsequent painkiller medicines were a rich blessing!

 

[Amy.G]

Since we are sharing TMI... The propofol I recieved when I got my colonoscopy made me so out of it that I never covered my memory from about 6 hours of that day! It was just completely gone! I was probably more "drunk" durring that time than I could get from drinking 10 beers!

HA! That is the truth. I'll bet you said some pretty funny stuff that day too and you don't even remember it! :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

Actually, I am very grateful for modern medical help.

However, the point you made would make it even less necessary for any true believer to take an intoxicant (exceptions noted).

Huh? Are you saying my dad wasn't a believer because he took morphine?

 

[Skandelon]

Huh? Are you saying my dad wasn't a believer because he took morphine?

No, no, no, Amy. He is saying that he wasn't a believer because he shaved the edge of his beard.

"Priests must not shave their heads or shave off the edges of their beards" - Lev 21

 

[agedman]

Yeah, maybe I should have been more explicit....I'm looking for actual Scriptural points not ad hoc commentary sans biblical references.

I'd love to see where consuming alcohol is explicitly forbidden in Scripture.

That would be so easy for you, wouldn't it.

Perhaps you would like to look at scriptures that "explicityly forbid" pedophilia, polygamy (polyamory), or even lesbianism.

The point being, the above are all sin against the example and nature of God in Christ. So is taking an intoxicant (exceptions noted).

 

[Ruiz]

That would be so easy for you, wouldn't it.

Perhaps you would like to look at scriptures that "explicityly forbid" pedophilia, polygamy (polyamory), or even lesbianism.

The point being, the above are all sin against the example and nature of God in Christ. So is taking an intoxicant (exceptions noted).

Yet, Jesus partook in wine, created wine, and practiced a ceremony that included wine. Are you saying Jesus sinned?

 

[Amy.G]

That would be so easy for you, wouldn't it.

Perhaps you would like to look at scriptures that "explicityly forbid" pedophilia, polygamy (polyamory), or even lesbianism.

The point being, the above are all sin against the example and nature of God in Christ. So is taking an intoxicant (exceptions noted).

No need. We already know the scriptures that condemn those things. Where are the ones that condemn ANY use of alcohol?

 

[agedman]

Friend no offense intended but, did you hurt yourself with this hermeneutical stretch?

Believers today are descendants of the Aaronic Priesthood? Now that is an interesting claim!

Does not the Scripture refer the believers as priests that our bodies are the temple?

 

[agedman]

No need. We already know the scriptures that condemn those things. Where are the ones that condemn ANY use of alcohol?

Show me!

I don't believe there is one verse in the Scriptures that condemn any of those three.

But, they remain sin, for they are definitely out of the character and nature of Christ.

 

[Skandelon]

That would be so easy for you, wouldn't it.

Perhaps you would like to look at scriptures that "explicityly forbid" pedophilia, polygamy (polyamory), or even lesbianism.

But I don't like any of those things and I like beer...so clearly this isn't applicable to my particular situation. :wavey:

The point being, the above are all sin against the example and nature of God in Christ. So is taking an intoxicant (exceptions noted).

What about Dr. Pepper? It makes my kids a bit hyper and definitely not "Christlike." Can we add that to the banned list while were at it?