Drinking Alcohol Moderately

[PrivateWoman]

I was told by my doctor to drink beer when I was nursing. It would help increase my milk and relax me when I was having a hard time nursing my son.

Doctors are humans just like all of us. They are not always right. I am curious. Do you know if your doctor is a Christian?

I am curious. What kind of church do you go to? Many conservative Baptists don't believe in drinking alcohol. I do know of one Cooperative Baptist Fellowship church where a number of people don't see anything wrong with drinking alcohol.

I am a Southern Baptist in case you were wondering.

 

[annsni]

Doctors are humans just like all of us. They are not always right. I am curious. Do you know if your doctor is a Christian?

Yep he is.

I am curious. What kind of church do you go to? Many conservative Baptists don't believe in drinking alcohol. I do know of one Cooperative Baptist Fellowship church where a number of people don't see anything wrong with drinking alcohol.

I am a Southern Baptist in case you were wondering.

Independent Baptist.

 

[PrivateWoman]

Yep he is.



Independent Baptist.

The truth is you will always find Christians in all churches that see nothing wrong with drinking moderately. I've heard that many Independent Baptist Churches are very strict about drinking alcohol moderately. Where does your pastor stand on drinking alcohol? How do most people in your church feel about this subject?

The pastor at my parents' Southern Baptist Church last week preached a great sermon about we should not do anything that is questionable. He talked about drinking alcohol and many people think it is okay to drink alcohol as long as they don't get drunk, but it is best to not drink alcohol at all.

About a week ago, I talked to my cousin who is a Baptist missionary to Mexico about how sad it was that so many Christians saw nothing wrong with drinking. She started talking about how wrong it was because it ruined your testimony. I agree with her.

 

[menageriekeeper]

How does it ruin a testimony? Explain just what about me sitting here in front of my computer drinking a cup of coffee laced with chocolate-hazelnut creme liquer does to "ruin my testimony"?

Do you think that my drinking alcohol enhanced coffee means more to a nonChristian than the fact that I have just spent the last 4 hours working in a friend's shop so she could take her husband to get a much needed series of MRI's?

Or maybe, it somehow affects the way I'm viewed when I teach my children's homeschool group driver's ed because no one else wanted to teach the almost all boy group. You think because I occasionally enhance my coffee it somehow makes me forget to warn them not to drink and drive?

Your preacher is asking the impossible of you btw. Not to do anything questionable. Questionable to who? If you spank your child for running into traffic, guess what? Someone is going to question whether you abuse your child! Does that mean you should never discipline them?

If you buy gas from a station that sells beer, is that questionable? You aren't buying beer, but someone might question your appearance at a gas station that does!

Your preacher is adding to scripture. Christ says His burden is light and His yoke easy, why does your preacher insist on making it hard?

Do you know that before the middle 1800's no one even cared if you drank alcohol. It wasn't until the temperance movements that began in the very late 1800's and ran into the 1900's ending with Prohibition that anyone at all preached against abstaining from any and all alcohol. Before that, preachers stuck to the Word and preached about not being a drunk!

I don't think it is sad at all that many Christians have turned against the false burden of never drinking a drop of alcohol in favor of drinking in the manner described in the Word.

 

[dwmoeller1]

Let me say up front that I have never had alcohol (nearly 40 now) nor do I anticipate that changing - a combination of not really being interested (I am the sort that prefers juice, water and tea over pretty much any other sorts of drinks), and having weak faith in this area (I can't quite get past how I raised to feel about alcohol). However, my study of Scripture leads me to the firm conclusion that its a matter of Christian liberty. I may not but I will defend other Christian's "right" to partake...if, as we should we all things, they do so with Christian principles of fellowship and love in mind.

I forgot to mention more information about my former pastor of singles & worship. He said he deeply regretted drinking beer with those college guys and he wished that he had not drank and instead took time to witness to them.

Or he could have witnessed while he was drinking with them.

I personally think drinking alcohol even in moderation can really ruin your witness.

In one sense I perfectly agree with you. If your Christianity is tied to the belief that drinking is wrong, then certainly drinking will ruin your witness. If you believe that drinking is wrong then doing so could certainly ruin your witness.

However, if your well known belief is that God gave alcohol like he gave, food and sex - to be enjoyed in their proper context and with moderation, but joyfully as a gift from God. If that is known to be your belief then drinking alcohol in moderation and in keeping with love and concern for others, then if anything, it will *enhance* your witness. My sister brought up a good point. She said that unsaved people may see Christians drinking and wonder why they should become a Christian since they are doing exactly the same thing.

I hate alcohol. It has done so many horrible things. I know many people would still be alive today if it was not for alcohol.

This is true, no doubt about it. However, it is certainly not an argument that alcohol is wrong. Why? Because the exact same things apply to things like sex and food. The problem is not with these things God has given for our enjoyment. You would agree that the fact that many people's lives have been destroyed by the abuse of sex is does not make sex bad or wrong for the Christian - certainly we would agree that such a conclusion would be absurd and unScriptural. The is true of alcohol. The real issue is not that it destroys lives (sex and food do as well) but that *when it is abused or used out of the proper context* it becomes dangerous (just as sex and food).

So, if sex and food can be rightly enjoyed by Christians in proper context and moderation, why not alcohol as well? Ecclesiastes seems to put it in the same general category as sex and food, so why should we deny this possibility?

Eccl 9:7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun— all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun.


Certainly Proverbs speaks very strongly against abuse of alcohol...but it gives the same sorts of warning about sex and food. So, avoid the strange woman, but enjoy pleasure with your wife; don't be gluttonous, but eat your food with gladness; don't be drunk, but drink your wine with a joyful heart.

We are very blessed that there are so many wonderful non-alcoholic beverages to choose from today. I really see no point in drinking alcohol at all.

I am of the same personal opinion - give me a nice cup of tea any day However, this doesn't mean other's might have a differing and perfectly valid perspective about what's worth their while to drink.

 

[dwmoeller1]

People who want to consume alcohol will find the excuses to do so, and it is futile to tell them otherwise..........Just ask the public what they think!

Cheers,

Jim

What of one like me? I never drink, never have taken a drink and likely will die w/o having had a drink of alcohol. Yet I will argue vociferously for the Christian liberty to drink in the proper context and in moderation. I certainly am not looking for an excuse to consume alcohol (I don't even have a desire to do so) so it can't be futile to tell me otherwise.

That being the case, how about a reasonable discussion with one who is not seeking excuses one way or the other?

 

[annsni]

I am of the same personal opinion - give me a nice cup of tea any day

It was funny because my husband and I were talking about this the other day. We no longer drink for liberty's choices but you'd think I was talking about alcohol the way I talk about tea. "I NEED a cup of tea" is often the phrase I say when I'm stressed, tired, sad, happy, etc. I feel a physical need to have a nice hot cup of strong British tea in a ceramic mug with some sugar and milk (a throwback to my childhood - it's comfort food for me).

I admit it. My name is Ann and I'm a tea-a-holic.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

It was funny because my husband and I were talking about this the other day. We no longer drink for liberty's choices but you'd think I was talking about alcohol the way I talk about tea. "I NEED a cup of tea" is often the phrase I say when I'm stressed, tired, sad, happy, etc. I feel a physical need to have a nice hot cup of strong British tea in a ceramic mug with some sugar and milk (a throwback to my childhood - it's comfort food for me).

I admit it. My name is Ann and I'm a tea-a-holic.

Aww, the British teas are really good, but if you are ever in an import shop that does Irish goods pick up a box of Lyons Green Label - wow!

 

[dwmoeller1]

Hot Jasmine Tea, mmmmmmmm....

 

[annsni]

Aww, the British teas are really good, but if you are ever in an import shop that does Irish goods pick up a box of Lyons Green Label - wow!

Is this what you mean??

http://www.baltcoffee.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/2_37

If so, our local Stop and Shop carries that!! I'll get it when I go to get milk later!

 

[jaigner]

Laws that allow people to do certain things after a certain age are not good. For example, you cannot go in adult stores until you are 18. Adult stores should not exist at all. Think about how much better the world would be if alcohol didn't exist. Many people would still be alive today if alcohol didn't exist. Alcohol has killed so many people.

Cars have killed more people. Food has killed more people. Guns have killed more people.

Actually, the people who have used these things have, regardless of intention, killed people, including themselves. Alcohol is the same. It cannot kill on its own.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Cars have killed more people. Food has killed more people. Guns have killed more people.

Actually, the people who have used these things have, regardless of intention, killed people, including themselves. Alcohol is the same. It cannot kill on its own.

Apples and oranges... One cannot find a verse in the Bible that tells people to refrain from drivng cars or owning guns.

Food, There is provision for people to eat.

Non alcoholic wine? there is provision there for that. (Song*5:1)

Alcoholic wine? Strictly forbidden. (Proverbs 23:31)

 

[annsni]

Non alcoholic wine? there is provision there for that. (Song*5:1)

What makes you say that this is non-alcoholic wine? There is nothing in the text that determines that.

Alcoholic wine? Strictly forbidden. (Proverbs 23:31)

This is not a prohibition against alcohol but drunkenness.

There is plenty of provision for alcohol in the Scriptures - wine and strong drink. To drink and enjoy and even use part of the tithe to purchase it.

 

[dwmoeller1]

What makes you say that this is non-alcoholic wine? There is nothing in the text that determines that.

Oh come on, isn't it obvious? We know that SofS 5:1 is speaking only of non-alcoholic wine because Prov 23:31 forbids alcoholic wine. Since Scripture can't contradict itself, SofS 5:1 must therefore be speaking of grape juice. So obvious when you look at it.

This is not a prohibition against alcohol but drunkenness.

Clearly its a blanket prohibition of alcohol. Just ignore the preceding verses and and the verses which come after and it is clear all that vs 31 is a prohibition against alcohol altogether. What could be more clear?

 

[annsni]

Oh come on, isn't it obvious? We know that SofS 5:1 is speaking only of non-alcoholic wine because Prov 23:31 forbids alcoholic wine. Since Scripture can't contradict itself, SofS 5:1 must therefore be speaking of grape juice. So obvious when you look at it.



Clearly its a blanket prohibition of alcohol. Just ignore the preceding verses and and the verses which come after and it is clear all that vs 31 is a prohibition against alcohol altogether. What could be more clear?

I should have known better!! You're right. I'll change my thinking to fit the preconceived notion.

 

[dwmoeller1]

And I feel I should point out that just as Prov 23:31 prohibits alcohol, Prov 23:2,3 prohibit eating meat at all. Notice:

Prov 23:2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite. 3 Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat

 

[annsni]

And I feel I should point out that just as Prov 23:31 prohibits alcohol, Prov 23:2,3 prohibit eating meat at all. Notice:

I don't know - reading that verse in the KJV seems kind of sketchy to me....

But then let's continue to read on!! Don't go looking to gain any sort of wealth. Verse 4 clearly states "Do not weary yourself to gain wealth, Cease from your consideration of it. " - so we need to make sure that we just maybe make enough to just get by.

 

[dwmoeller1]

Overindulgence in food vs. overindulgence in alcohol - are they comparable or not? Consider how Scripture deals with these two things:

Deuteronomy 21:20
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

Proverbs 23:20,21
Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

Mt 11:18-19 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

It seems that the overindulgence in food and alcohol are comparable. In both cases it is not the use which is wrong, but the overuse, the immoderation.

Prov 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Prov 23:2
And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite. 3 Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat

Both food and alcohol are spoken of in the same terms - as being deceitful to one who indulges.

 

[PrivateWoman]

Let me say up front that I have never had alcohol (nearly 40 now) nor do I anticipate that changing - a combination of not really being interested (I am the sort that prefers juice, water and tea over pretty much any other sorts of drinks), and having weak faith in this area (I can't quite get past how I raised to feel about alcohol). However, my study of Scripture leads me to the firm conclusion that its a matter of Christian liberty. I may not but I will defend other Christian's "right" to partake...if, as we should we all things, they do so with Christian principles of fellowship and love in mind.



Or he could have witnessed while he was drinking with them.



In one sense I perfectly agree with you. If your Christianity is tied to the belief that drinking is wrong, then certainly drinking will ruin your witness. If you believe that drinking is wrong then doing so could certainly ruin your witness.

However, if your well known belief is that God gave alcohol like he gave, food and sex - to be enjoyed in their proper context and with moderation, but joyfully as a gift from God. If that is known to be your belief then drinking alcohol in moderation and in keeping with love and concern for others, then if anything, it will *enhance* your witness. My sister brought up a good point. She said that unsaved people may see Christians drinking and wonder why they should become a Christian since they are doing exactly the same thing.



This is true, no doubt about it. However, it is certainly not an argument that alcohol is wrong. Why? Because the exact same things apply to things like sex and food. The problem is not with these things God has given for our enjoyment. You would agree that the fact that many people's lives have been destroyed by the abuse of sex is does not make sex bad or wrong for the Christian - certainly we would agree that such a conclusion would be absurd and unScriptural. The is true of alcohol. The real issue is not that it destroys lives (sex and food do as well) but that *when it is abused or used out of the proper context* it becomes dangerous (just as sex and food).

So, if sex and food can be rightly enjoyed by Christians in proper context and moderation, why not alcohol as well? Ecclesiastes seems to put it in the same general category as sex and food, so why should we deny this possibility?

Eccl 9:7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun— all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun.


Certainly Proverbs speaks very strongly against abuse of alcohol...but it gives the same sorts of warning about sex and food. So, avoid the strange woman, but enjoy pleasure with your wife; don't be gluttonous, but eat your food with gladness; don't be drunk, but drink your wine with a joyful heart.



I am of the same personal opinion - give me a nice cup of tea any day However, this doesn't mean other's might have a differing and perfectly valid perspective about what's worth their while to drink.

It is wonderful that you have never drank alcohol. But I am puzzled about why you defend Christians who drink.

There is no way my former pastor of singles & worship could have witnessed to those guys while drinking beer. Can you see someone with a beer in their hands and witness to others? It is hard for me to listen to things a person who is drinking beer may be saying because he is not apart from the world. This really ruins your testimony.

 

[PrivateWoman]

I encourage everyone to read a good article on alcohol and the bible at http://www.james-dave.com/alcoholfaq.html. I know that the wine Jesus provided at the wedding was in fact non-alcoholic wine. It is clear that people drank a lot. If it had been alcoholic, some people would have gotten drunk. Some very skinny people get drunk even after just 1 drink.

For those who think it is legalistic to encourage Christians to not drink, please read http://www.james-dave.com/alcoholfaq.html.

Distillation had not been invented yet in the biblical times. I cannot find the beer anywhere in the bible.

You also should read a good article about Jesus and wine at http://www.learnthebible.org/jesus-and-wine.html. I don't think that he drank alcoholic wine at all. Study that article closely.