Drinking: Can You Really Handle It?

[righteousdude2]

Yes, But Remember ...

Paul told Timothy to "Have a little wine for they stomach's sake." Apparently, Timothy was having stomach problems, and wine supposedly eased his suffering. I don't believe that Paul would have recommended that Timothy commit a sin--so a little alcohol is probably not a sin as long as one doesn't get drunk. There is WAY too much sugar in alcoholic beverages for me to bother with it at all. I've found three sugar free soft drinks I like, and I drink a lot water and milk; I've always loved milk--not weaned yet. :laugh:

In that time and age, there was not much in the form of medicine, and wine was used in a medicinal way.

As for drinking and diabetes. There are not many good doctors who would encourage a diabetic to drink, even in moderation! I know this because I am a Type 2, and been asked by every doctor that's ever treated if I drank! And they said if I did, I should consider ending it, as it was bad for my condition!

Just a thought my brother!

 

[righteousdude2]

I differ on two points.....

I agree with you on the driving thing but I've definitely seen that it doesn't harm a witness. Actually, back when we would have a drink here or there around all of the unsaved people we know, they were pleasantly surprised to know that being a Christian doesn't mean you can never drink again. It was a great time to explain about moderation and respect - and we really were able to feed into people's lives (and watch some get saved) out of those times.

As to the witness. If a non believer, or a baby or immature Christian saw the pastor of deacon's drinking alcohol, the witness to them would be, [if they wanted an excuse or reason to drink] IT IS JUST FINE for them too! What's that old hymn "Give me that old-time religion" said?

Give me that old-time religion
Give me that old-time religion
Give me that old-time religion
It’s good enough for me.

It was good for the Hebrew children.
It was good for the Hebrew children.
It was good for the Hebrew children.
And it’s good enough for me​

AND in the case of someone looking closely at how a Christian lives, and they see a Christian drinking, it could sway them to say, I don't want any of that kind of religion?

Finally, for the hyper-critical brothers and sisters, seeing the pastor or deacon or church member out drinking, or drinking around their home, makes for the stumbling block of judgement, gossip and back-biting to come out. So the witness of a believer drinking in the eyes of a hyper critical believer could lead them to sin in other forms of sin!

I happen to think that the witness of a believer drinking, could have a lot of negative repercussions on a lot of other people. Let's just say that a glass of Gallo's "Ripple" could quite possibly send a "ripple" of sin reverberating across the waters of the fellowship; affecting more people than just the drinker! Of course this is JMHO!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As to the witness. If a non believer, or a baby or immature Christian saw the pastor of deacon's drinking alcohol, the witness to them would be, [if they wanted an excuse or reason to drink] IT IS JUST FINE for them too! What's that old hymn "Give me that old-time religion" said?

Give me that old-time religion
Give me that old-time religion
Give me that old-time religion
It’s good enough for me.

It was good for the Hebrew children.
It was good for the Hebrew children.
It was good for the Hebrew children.
And it’s good enough for me​

AND in the case of someone looking closely at how a Christian lives, and they see a Christian drinking, it could sway them to say, I don't want any of that kind of religion?

Finally, for the hyper-critical brothers and sisters, seeing the pastor or deacon or church member out drinking, or drinking around their home, makes for the stumbling block of judgement, gossip and back-biting to come out. So the witness of a believer drinking in the eyes of a hyper critical believer could lead them to sin in other forms of sin!

I happen to think that the witness of a believer drinking, could have a lot of negative repercussions on a lot of other people. Let's just say that a glass of Gallo's "Ripple" could quite possibly send a "ripple" of sin reverberating across the waters of the fellowship; affecting more people than just the drinker! Of course this is JMHO!

Thats funny....I just view you as hyper critical nut jobs. This wall you put up against a person simply because they have an occasional drink makes me NOT want to have anything to do with you.

 

[agedman]

Thats funny....I just view you as hyper critical nut jobs. This wall you put up against a person simply because they have an occasional drink makes me NOT want to have anything to do with you.

But that doesn't make your view any more credible?

Perhaps such a post just shows how entrenched in deceit one may be.

What is the very definition of deceit or being deceived?

Is the one deceived aware until the deceit is accomplished?

"Wine is a mocker" - that is fact - just as true as "God is love." If one accepts the later as factual, they remain inconsistent by not accepting the first as factual.

The goal of the enemy is to deceive. One is not wise if they are deceived.

That is Scriptural principle.

That some make all manner of excuse and look for "permission" is just further evidence of the power of deceit.

 

[JamesL]

I've always taken that verse as mocking them in the sense that no one can get drunk on new wine. Kind like saying, "You're drunk on Coca-Cola!" nowadays.

The Greek term here is not the normal term for wine (oinos) but gleukos, which distinctly means grape juice. "Must, sweet new wine" (Abbot & Smith's lexicon).

I'm curious how you view the cup in 1Corinthians 11:17-33

Paul said that some were getting drunk (verse 21), and for that reason many were sick and some had died. This was the Lord's Supper, and Paul doesn't seem to reprimand them for using an alcoholic drink, just that they were abusing it.

 

[kyredneck]

I'm curious how you view the cup in 1Corinthians 11:17-33

Paul said that some were getting drunk (verse 21), and for that reason many were sick and some had died. This was the Lord's Supper, and Paul doesn't seem to reprimand them for using an alcoholic drink, just that they were abusing it.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[righteousdude2]

What's EVEN More Funny is...

Thats funny....I just view you as hyper critical nut jobs. This wall you put up against a person simply because they have an occasional drink makes me NOT want to have anything to do with you.

....that I didn't know we had anything to do with each other in the first place? You have never been a fan of my opinions, views and theology...and THAT IS YOUR RIGHT!

I am certainly not going to lose sleep with the fact that you don't want to have ANYTHING to do with me! In fact, if you put me on ignore, my feelings will not be hurt, and you won't have to read my "Hyper-critical" thoughts [as if this board isn't already full of hyper-critical folks?]!

So lighten up EWF....I don't want to be the cause behind anyone drinking to forget me


:smilewinkgrin:

 

[John of Japan]

I'm curious how you view the cup in 1Corinthians 11:17-33

Paul said that some were getting drunk (verse 21), and for that reason many were sick and some had died. This was the Lord's Supper, and Paul doesn't seem to reprimand them for using an alcoholic drink, just that they were abusing it.

In the first place, I was simply making an exegetical point, using my Greek experience to try to help folks understand the Word a little more. In the second place, I've done these alcohol threads before, and really don't feel like taking the abuse again from drinkers (not that you are that way--don't really know you--but see EWF's post#43 already). In the third place, if I were going to make a point about the issue, I certainly wouldn't use the Corinthian church, possibly the worst one Paul wrote to. :type:

 

[kyredneck]

...In the third place, if I were going to make a point about the issue, I certainly wouldn't use the Corinthian church, possibly the worst one Paul wrote to. :type:

He didn't just 'write' to the church at Corinth, he founded it. He knew it well.

 

[John of Japan]

He didn't just 'write' to the church at Corinth, he founded it. He knew it well.

Quite true! Maybe he thought it would be a big enough task to just get them to quit being drunkards--much less stop drinking alcohol. :laugh: (See also 5:11, where they were not even supposed to hang out with drunkards!)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

....that I didn't know we had anything to do with each other in the first place? You have never been a fan of my opinions, views and theology...and THAT IS YOUR RIGHT!

I am certainly not going to lose sleep with the fact that you don't want to have ANYTHING to do with me! In fact, if you put me on ignore, my feelings will not be hurt, and you won't have to read my "Hyper-critical" thoughts [as if this board isn't already full of hyper-critical folks?]!

So lighten up EWF....I don't want to be the cause behind anyone drinking to forget me


:smilewinkgrin:

Drink to forget you....rofl

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

But that doesn't make your view any more credible?

Perhaps such a post just shows how entrenched in deceit one may be.

What is the very definition of deceit or being deceived?

Is the one deceived aware until the deceit is accomplished?

"Wine is a mocker" - that is fact - just as true as "God is love." If one accepts the later as factual, they remain inconsistent by not accepting the first as factual.

The goal of the enemy is to deceive. One is not wise if they are deceived.

That is Scriptural principle.

That some make all manner of excuse and look for "permission" is just further evidence of the power of deceit.

You should have been a lawyer:laugh: first off, alcohol cannot control thems that are in control of themselves so a drink now and again is for beverage enjoyment only. Now it appears that if the truth were to be told, there is probably a majority of you who are or were alcoholics in the past, or else you have alcoholic relatives who you have observed with drinking g problems so you shun it and want deeply from eradicate it from the planet.

Well now to thems who would like nothing better than to have proabition returned, I say "be afraid....be very afraid " because if someone wants it then they will find a way to get it. Now its done deceptively vs up front and above board....and you will NOT know until it is too late.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

[more provocation removed]

Completely unprovoked.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

[more provocation removed]

No provocation.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

[snipped - uncalled for baiting]

No baiting occurred here.

 

[evangelist6589]

I find it quite interesting when I hear the debate among believers that drinking is "Okay!" For several years I was honored to serve as the Executive Director of a Community Alcohol and Drug Counseling and Outreach Center, and during my monthly staff meetings with the counselors and the staff going out into the schools teaching teens about the downside of alcohol and drug use, the one thing that came up over and over was that my staff would share that almost always, those in mandated counseling shared with them how they started out as a casual drinker or drug user, thinking that they "Could handle it!"

It was invariably always the case that all of those being counseled for alcohol and drug abuse problems started out with one thing in mind: Doing it 'moderation!'" And eventually, a night out with friends; a bad fight with their spouse; the loss of a job; something unexpected and negative in his or her life led them to go outside the limits of "moderation" even just one or two times? And before they knew it, they were no longer able to "handle it!"

In no way am I going to try to tell anyone on this board that they should or shouldn't drink, but I have to ask you just one question: When the pedal hits the medal, can you really handle it, when it comes to not allowing drinking or drugs to push beyond the limits of what you call "moderation?"

SEE: http://www.gallup.com/poll/156770/majority-drink-alcohol-averaging-four-drinks-week.aspx

Remember this ... if you get angry with me for what I've shared, said or insinuated above, or feel the need to defend your right to drink, maybe, just maybe you already know that it has become a problem you are losing control of...

​

And before you jump all over me ... let me say that in my early days as a pastor, I was into wine, Cream Sherry, and I absolutely loved Scorpions [the mixed drink]. And yes, I drove while under the influence, and while I wasn't DRUNK, per se, I was "buzzed!" I was pulled over, and thankfully God covered my sin, and I was not made to walk any lines or breath in a tube! I know they smelled the wine on my breath, but I dodged an embarrassing event in my life! I am not asking anything in the following poll that I didn't ask myself, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away! :smilewinkgrin: God convicted me, and I ceased drinking, because I found that I could no longer defend myself before the light God shined on me during and after drinking! :wavey:

Are you making the wild assumption that everyone who drinks in moderation will one day be a drunk? if so based on what evidence?

Until 150 years ago, virtually no one in the church ever took the position that drinking alcohol in moderation is a sin. No one. There are no ancient exegetical studies of these accounts of Jesus and wine breaking down the words because no one bothered to do so. Everyone knew it was wine. The question simply wasn’t asked, because there was no reason to ask it.

https://highlandsministriesonline.o...ented-wine-or-grape-juice-at-the-last-supper/

Are you basing your conclusions on alcohol based on the culture and churches interpretations or are you basing your conclusions on what the Bible says? My guess would be the former which is not unlike most.

Check out this article

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/guilty-conscience/

It may be wise for many whom cannot control themselves and or others to abstain. But don't assume everyone has this problem.

In the meantime I suggest you buy and read this book as I am presently doing. Its a deep academic read so go through it slowly.

 

[evangelist6589]

When a person drinks anything they want that drink to have an effect on them or has some benefit. We drink water for thirst, some drink coffee for the caffeine, people drink soft drinks for the taste, people drink alcohol for the buzz.

This is false information. I for one would drink a Mikes only for the taste and sugar which is quite good. I would not drink it for the buzz.

 

[evangelist6589]

When I was younger, I drank a lot, like a lot of young men do. It wasn't a compulsion to drink, but I just saw other guys doing it and thought I was supposed to.

Particularly since I spent several years as a musician. I really thought that was part of the job description.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do like beer and, once upon a time, I did like to have a little Jameson's, but the binge drinking and the drunkenness, in retrospect, I could have done without.

Yes, I did drive drunk, but stopped after I ran over a tire on the shoulder one night and realized that might have been a person.

I don't drink now for a variety of reasons. For one, I don't want my liberty to cause a weaker brother to stumble and, because of my position in the church, I'm under even more scrutiny and I don't want someone to get the wrong idea. I also don't drink because we have a young man who lives with us who has become part of our family, and he's a recovering alcoholic and I don't want to do anything to tempt him.

And, finally, lest you think I'm patting myself on the back for giving up alcohol for purely noble reasons, the biggest reason I no longer drink is that, about four years ago, I found that beer started to give me terrible acid reflux for some reason.

Don't miss it a bit. My only problem now is what to do with my hands without a bottle to hold. Same reason I don't like it when churches show the lyrics to hymns (if you can find a church that still sings hymns) on the wall, but I digress.

Your reasons are noble. I also like how you do not label everyone and try and militate your situation on everyone else unlike the sermons of Fundamentalist Baptists.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Drinking any amount is not the smartest thing we can do. We shouldn't drink at all if there is the slightest indication in our behavior that we "can't handle it," as RD2 has said in the OP. That indication would be any behavior that has us talking to ourselves about whether to have a drink, or another drink. If we have to debate ourselves, then we shouldn't be doing it, because that "debate" is actually our excuse mechanism kicking in to justify having a drink that we shouldn't have.

That said, of course, there is ample and good evidence that the nightly glass of white or red wine is a healthy undertaking, but even that may be used as an excuse to have no just one or two, but four or five.

Bottom line: If you look for a reason or an excuse to drink, you shouldn't.

(PS: I answered "yes" to all the poll questions except the last two, because I quit drinking long before I became a Christian, because the U.S. Army told me to quit drinking, or quit flying -- and made it clear they didn't really care which, but I needed to pick one. I had to make the same choice, though personally, not professionally, imposed about gambling some ten years later. Wine and the very occasional beer is something I now do enjoy, but one or two is plenty. I don't need anymore than that, and no, I'm not sinning. I've settled that with God long ago. Gambling? No way I even stand next to the lottery display at Quik Trip. That's my downfall.)

 

[annsni]

As to the witness. If a non believer, or a baby or immature Christian saw the pastor of deacon's drinking alcohol, the witness to them would be, [if they wanted an excuse or reason to drink] IT IS JUST FINE for them too!

And? Yes, it WOULD be just fine for them to drink in moderation too - unless they are predisposed to alcoholism or have a medical condition where alcohol is contraindicated. Honestly, I've not found many people who say "Oh great! My pastor has a glass of wine on special occasions so I can go get drunk as much as I want!!" The most we've had when we did drink was for people to come up and say "I thought Christians aren't allowed to drink." What a perfect opportunity to teach them the truth of what Scripture says. It really opened up good discussions about God, the Word of God and alcohol the few times it was an issue (and like I said, not even an issue but a point of discussion).

AND in the case of someone looking closely at how a Christian lives, and they see a Christian drinking, it could sway them to say, I don't want any of that kind of religion?

I've actually experienced the complete opposite here in NY. Everyone we've spoken to has thought Christianity was all "thou shall not have any more fun in life once you become a Christian" and they see that we're normal people, have a drink on occasion (in the past - remember, we don't drink now because that is a requirement of our church), laugh, dance and even get a little silly.

Finally, for the hyper-critical brothers and sisters, seeing the pastor or deacon or church member out drinking, or drinking around their home, makes for the stumbling block of judgement, gossip and back-biting to come out. So the witness of a believer drinking in the eyes of a hyper critical believer could lead them to sin in other forms of sin!

Hmmm - I'd say the hyper-critical brother or sister would find something else to pick on even if the pastor didn't drink. Do I worry about the hyper-critical brother or sister? Honestly, no. I worry about the Lord. Am I following Him? If I am, then what others think mean less to me because I've learned in life that I'll never please everyone. Heck, my wearing pants to church just might offend someone - but wearing a skirt might also. If me having a glass of wine at dinner will cause judgment, gossip and back-biting to come out, I'm glad because that person needs some heavy duty Matthew 18ing and discipling. In other words, they need help.

I happen to think that the witness of a believer drinking, could have a lot of negative repercussions on a lot of other people. Let's just say that a glass of Gallo's "Ripple" could quite possibly send a "ripple" of sin reverberating across the waters of the fellowship; affecting more people than just the drinker! Of course this is JMHO!

I understand it's your opinion and I definitely disagree with it. If I worry about the "ripple of sin reverberating across the waters of the fellowship" by me NOT sinning (drinking a glass of wine is not sin), then we have a big problem in our fellowship and we need to address it. To walk on eggshells because we might offend someone is wrong. To love another and care about them and disciple them is another thing. If I was allowed to drink, there would be times I would and times I would not. But if my sweet friend who is a recovering alcoholic saw me drinking a glass of wine, she already knows my stance on alcohol and she knows that my drinking is not condoning her drinking. But if I know that she will be somewhere that I am, I love her enough to have a seltzer with lime instead.