Drinking

[Moriah]

Barnes has a good explanation for the "much wine" passages.

Do you think Barnes is an Apostle?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Do you think Barnes is an Apostle?

Do you think you are?

 

[Moriah]

Do you think you are?

No, I do not think I am an Apostle, but I am quoting Paul, and you quote Barnes. You also add your own thoughts on the topic, so, do you think you and Barnes are Apostles?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Using your logic, Paul was instrumental in causing thousands of people through the ages to become drunkards, thereby damning them to hell.

Thousands through the ages have used the same arguments you do ..."Paul said deacons could drink alcohol" and justifying their "moderate" drinking went on to become drunkards.

Why, even Jesus gave way for people to become drunkards, if we are to believe your theory.

Of course, we don't believe it.

 

[mont974x4]

The Pharisees started adding to what God commanded. That did not set well with Jesus. He did not speak well of people who put others in such bondage and placed stumbling blocks in front of them under the guise of what they thought was holy.

 

[Moriah]

Using your logic, Paul was instrumental in causing thousandss of people through the ages to become drunkards, thereby damning them to hell.

No, that is not my logic it is your logic. Haaaaaaaa

Thousands through the ages have used the same arguments you do ..."Paul said deacons could drink alcohol" and justifying their "moderate" drinking went on to become drunkards..

If your hand causes you to sin cut it off.

Parents give their children cars and they are killed in them, is it the parents fault for giving them a car? NO.
God gave us mouths to eat with, is it God’s fault people get obese? No.
I can go on and on with examples of how what you say is nonsense.

Why, even Jesus gave way for people to become drunkards, if we are to believe your theory
Of course, we don't believe it.

It is not my theory; it is the word of God. Oh and, I know you do not believe it.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The Pharisees started adding to what God commanded. That did not set well with Jesus. He did not speak well of people who put others in such bondage and placed stumbling blocks in front of them under the guise of what they thought was holy.

Jesus did not speak well of those who put stumbling blocks in front of others, true.

And so man put stumbling blocks in front of others when they tell them God allows drinking of alcohol.

 

[preacher4truth]

There is nothing in Scripture that says we are not to consume alcohol ever, yet it does speak of abuse.

Note the allowance of alcohol in Deut. 14:26.

Also, Jesus was called a winebibber, as He most certainly drank wine, and also made wine, Matthew 11:19; John 4 respectively.

I know several Christian folks, devoted to God, who consume alcohol. I know more Christian folks who don't drink, chew, dance, play cards that aren't devoted to God. :wavey:

 

[preacher4truth]

And so man put stumbling blocks in front of others when they tell them God allows drinking of alcohol.

Deuteronomy 14:26 is a stumbling block to you then.

Jesus came eating and drinking, yes, even wine, which is supported by the context of Matthew 11:19.

If truth is a stumbling block to you then you need to change your views and align them with what the Bible really says, not what a stomp and snort sermon gets you fired up over which falls short of telling all the truth. :thumbsup:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

There is nothing in Scripture that says we are not to consume alcohol ever, yet it does speak of abuse.

Note the allowance of alcohol in Deut. 14:26.

Also, Jesus was called a winebibber, as He most certainly drank wine, and also made wine, Matthew 11:19; John 4 respectively.

I know several Christian folks, devoted to God, who consume alcohol. I know more Christian folks who don't drink, chew, dance, play cards that aren't devoted to God. :wavey:

Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Note the allowance of prostitution? The allowance of opiates? methamphetamines?

The fact is, God was no more condoning prostitution or drugs in that verse than He was of drinking alcohol.

Both yayin and shakar in the Old Testament were generic terms for either fermented or non fermented beverage.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Deuteronomy 14:26 is a stumbling block to you then.

Jesus came eating and drinking, yes, even wine, which is supported by the context of Matthew 11:19.

If truth is a stumbling block to you then you need to change your views and align them with what the Bible really says, not what a stomp and snort sermon gets you fired up over which falls short of telling all the truth. :thumbsup:

Matthew 11 does not say Jesus was drinking wine, only that He was drinking. The Pharisees falsely accused Him of drinking wine.

 

[preacher4truth]

Matthew 11 does not say Jesus was drinking wine, only that He was drinking. The Pharisees falsely accused Him of drinking wine.

Nonsense.

You need to grasp context.

The context says he came eating and drinking, and they called Him a winebibber and glutton. He drank wine, and He made wine, get over it. That and what He said in Deut. 14:26. There's more, but you're not ready for it.

Most who are against ever consuming alcohol, which is not Biblical mind you, do so for 'religious' reasons, not out of obedience to the Bible.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Nonsense.

You need to grasp context.

The context says he came eating and drinking, and they called Him a winebibber and glutton. He drank wine, and He made wine, get over it. That and what He said in Deut. 14:26. There's more, but you're not ready for it.

Most who are against ever consuming alcohol, which is not Biblical mind you, do so for 'religious' reasons, not out of obedience to the Bible.

If He made and drank alcoholic wine, He was as much a sinner as those He came to save and not qualified to die for us.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I will drink to that! :tongue3:

 

[preacher4truth]

If He made and drank alcoholic wine, He was as much a sinner as those He came to save and not qualified to die for us.

Then according to your logic, He was a sinner way before this in Deuteronomy 14:26. Yours is a shameful accusation to say the least.

 

[steaver]

Steaver,

Do you not agree that all women Christians are priests in the Lord?

Then you need to tell Paul that he is teaching wrong, because here he teaches not to drink MUCH wine.

Titus 2:3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.

Do you think the Christian deacons are priests in the Lord?

Then you need to tell Paul that he is teaching wrong, because here he teaches deacons not to drink MUCH wine.

1 Timothy 3:8 Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.

I hope Steaver does not have the nerve to keep arguing against Paul.

I agee 100% with Paul. Deacons are not to drink much wine nor the women as spoken in Titus 2. I don't know where the NIV translators found the word "addicted" for it does not exist in the original transcripts. Don't drink much wine, simple as that.

We have scripture which instructs God's kings and priest to drink no wine. I highly doubt Paul would preach contrary to scripture concerning kings and priest and the consumption of wine. I believe you are reading much into the word much. It's kinda like you are looking for a reason to take the drug.

 

[steaver]

There is nothing in Scripture that says we are not to consume alcohol ever, yet it does speak of abuse.

Note the allowance of alcohol in Deut. 14:26.

Also, Jesus was called a winebibber, as He most certainly drank wine, and also made wine, Matthew 11:19; John 4 respectively.

I know several Christian folks, devoted to God, who consume alcohol. I know more Christian folks who don't drink, chew, dance, play cards that aren't devoted to God. :wavey:

You must have not read all the post I gave.

Tabacco use and playing cards are not spoken of in the scriptures. These would be equivalent to fatty cheesburgers and money spent on entertainment. They may or may not be sin depending on the thoughts and attitudes of the heart or a personal one on one from the Holy Spirit. There is no biblcal blanket command given for these issues. As for dancing, there are no guidelines given in the scriptures.

 

[Moriah]

I agee 100% with Paul. Deacons are not to drink much wine nor the women as spoken in Titus 2. I don't know where the NIV translators found the word "addicted" for it does not exist in the original transcripts. Don't drink much wine, simple as that.

We have scripture which instructs God's kings and priest to drink no wine. I highly doubt Paul would preach contrary to scripture concerning kings and priest and the consumption of wine. I believe you are reading much into the word much. It's kinda like you are looking for a reason to take the drug.

I hate false religions, false doctrines, and any false teachings. I am not reading much into the word much. There are people who just do not accept God’s Word and want to twist it into something else, as if they can do better. I do not want man's word, or man's wisdom I want God’s only. Your wisdom makes Jesus a sinner.

You are wrong about alcohol and me. If you knew me at all, you would be embarrassed that you falsely accused me in such a way, and you should be embarrassed for trying to judge me when you cannot even judge correctly that do not drink much wine does not mean do not drink wine at all.

 

[Moriah]

Tabacco use and playing cards are not spoken of in the scriptures. These would be equivalent to fatty cheesburgers and money spent on entertainment.

A person addicted to cigarette smoking, cigar smoking, or chew is sinning. The Bible says a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. Surely, addiction to smoking means nicotine is your master. You get the urge to smoke, and you obey its commands.

 

[steaver]

A person addicted to cigarette smoking, cigar smoking, or chew is sinning. The Bible says a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. Surely, addiction to smoking means nicotine is your master. You get the urge to smoke, and you obey its commands.

I noticed you added "addiction" to the conversation. Is it ok to smoke as long as you are not addicted?