Election, Predestination and Scripture

[Van]

Yet another Cal addresses the poster and not the post. God elects individuals for salvation through faith in the truth.
If God does not credit our faith, as worthless as it may be, as righteousness, does our salvation depend on our faith? Nope. These arguments are both irrational and absurd. And that is all they have. Just read 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (in the NASB, NKJV, WEB, LEB, NET or HCSB.) Again, we are saved by GRACE through faith (God crediting our faith as righteousness at His sole discretion).

Unconditional election of individuals for salvation has been shown to be bogus using about a dozen verses. So they spend their efforts disparaging me and trying to change the subject. Same ol, same ol.

 

[MennoSota]

We are saved by grace, through a faith that is not our own, but is a gift of God.

Van just can't comprehend the effort that God goes through to make His adopted children righteous and holy.
He has to make it all about himself and his own self-righteousness. It's just sad.

 

[utilyan]

We are saved by grace, through a faith that is not our own, but is a gift of God.

Van just can't comprehend the effort that God goes through to make His adopted children righteous and holy.
He has to make it all about himself and his own self-righteousness. It's just sad.

Menno believes God is too incompetent and limited in sovereignty to establish a system that doesn't work outside of Calvinism.

The "effort" that goes through? Although it might take you effort, Its a piece of cake for God to be God.

And just because you can't wrap your mind around being in control unless you control everything, doesn't mean God can't give all free will and still be in control.

The Calvinist attitude is He can do everything the way he wants unless he doesn't want Calvinism, this is so absurd.

In other words Calvinist don't believe God can actually do what he wants.

Even the commandments of God which apply to everyone intrinsically state the very desire and want of God.

Calvinist would have us believe God has FAKE desires and FAKE wants followed by Sincere wants and desires.


God does not Lie, does not author sin, doesn't rely on tricks or deception.

 

[Van]

I see Charge-O-matic has posted yet another nothing burger. Does any verse say you were saved by grace and given faith? Nope. Again and again scripture is crystal, we are saved by grace through faith. Our faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. If you read where someone entered a room through a door, would you understand it to mean you magically materialized inside the room and then were given a door? No, rational minds say first to went through the door to the room and then you were in the room. Does Romans 4 say God instilled Abraham's faith or that God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness. Verse after verse folks make the truth crystal clear, we were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. Unconditional Election is fake theology and belongs in the dustbin of history.

And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

And He said to him, “Stand up and go; your faith has made you well.”

but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

Just start counting the number of verses the fake theology nullifies. It is a lot more than the dozen or so that teach conditional election through faith in the truth.

 

[MennoSota]

Menno believes God is too incompetent and limited in sovereignty to establish a system that doesn't work outside of Calvinism.

Just the opposite. God is so absolutely Sovereign that He gives to each person as He alone wills.

You, on the other hand, demand that God acts according to your will as one who bows to your personal sovereignty.

Unfortunately for you and fortunately for the entire creation, your view is a worthless lie from the pit of hell.

It pleases me greatly to serve the Sovereign God of the Universe who chose me by His grace.

 

[MennoSota]

I see Charge-O-matic has posted yet another nothing burger. Does any verse say you were saved by grace and given faith? Nope. Again and again scripture is crystal, we are saved by grace through faith. Our faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. If you read where someone entered a room through a door, would you understand it to mean you magically materialized inside the room and then were given a door? No, rational minds say first to went through the door to the room and then you were in the room. Does Romans 4 say God instilled Abraham's faith or that God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness. Verse after verse folks make the truth crystal clear, we were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. Unconditional Election is fake theology and belongs in the dustbin of history.

And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

And He said to him, “Stand up and go; your faith has made you well.”

but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

Just start counting the number of verses the fake theology nullifies. It is a lot more than the dozen or so that teach conditional election through faith in the truth.

Van, you struggle to comprehend that it is God who gave the woman faith.

Where does faith come from, Van? Do you conjure it up from your magic fairy world?

Who is the giver of all good things, Van?

Perhaps some day you will see how absolutely abhorrent and self-centered your teaching is. You attempt to diminish God every time you demand that faith is something you conjure up so that God owes you salvation.

 

[utilyan]

Just the opposite. God is so absolutely Sovereign that He gives to each person as He alone wills.

You, on the other hand, demand that God acts according to your will as one who bows to your personal sovereignty.

Unfortunately for you and fortunately for the entire creation, your view is a worthless lie from the pit of hell.

It pleases me greatly to serve the Sovereign God of the Universe who chose me by His grace.

You mean God shoved his hand up my back worked me like a puppet then plays that I demand that God acts according to the will he demanded of himself?

Your version of God is too dumb to deal with creatures with free will, He can only win a game of checkers by moving your pieces for you.

The problem is you can only accept God in your meager comprehensive limits. Which is a idiot God who must absolutely force all things. Your version is flat out a God that failed, Even when you sin who's fault is that? Not yours, its the "sin nature", God's fault.

Excuses Excuses Excuses. Why do you keep sinning? God's Fault. Oh but he gave me a saved T-shirt so I have a License to Sin.

Excuses Excuses Excuses.

Your theology was put out seeking a license to sin, holding God accountable for your mistakes.

Its time to grow up and take responsibility for the choices you made rather then blame God.

 

[MennoSota]

You mean God shoved his hand up my back worked me like a puppet then plays that I demand that God acts according to the will he demanded of himself?

Nope, that's your perverted view because you demand that God grovel at your feet.

 

[utilyan]

Nope, that's your perverted view because you demand that God grovel at your feet.

God let his son die for me, I don't see how groveling could top that.

 

[MennoSota]

God let his son die for me, I don't see how groveling could top that.

He didn't let him...he ordained that it would be the very means of atonement for his chosen children.

You demand that God applaud your choice as though you are something special.

It's all about you. Such a man-centered view of God. You make Him less than He is. It's a pity.

 

[Van]

Van, you struggle to comprehend that it is God who gave the woman faith.
Where does faith come from, Van? Do you conjure it up from your magic fairy world?
Who is the giver of all good things, Van?
Perhaps some day you will see how absolutely abhorrent and self-centered your teaching is. You attempt to diminish God every time you demand that faith is something you conjure up so that God owes you salvation.

Yet another address the poster and not the post violation.
I do not struggle to comprehend our faith is not instilled via irresistible grace after we are saved. That view is fake theology.
Why ask me questions, why not answer them from scripture? The reason, no scripture supports your fake theology, so we get disparagement, deflection and obfuscation.

My view is directly from the bible and therefore is not "abhorrent" or "self centered" My view exults God by believing His words are true. And finally you repeat the falsehood I claim to have "conjured up" meritorious faith. Folks, more change the subject bogus charges from Charge-O-Matic. Jesus said, your faith has saved you. He did not say the faith I instilled via irresistible grace saved you. Pay no attention to those who nullify and make to no effect the very words of God.

Scripture says we are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. God credits our faith as righteousness. God chooses those who are poor to the world, rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God. Trust in God and not in fake theology.

 

[MennoSota]

Yet another address the poster and not the post violation.
I do not struggle to comprehend our faith is not instilled via irresistible grace after we are saved. That view is fake theology.
Why ask me questions, why not answer them from scripture? The reason, no scripture supports your fake theology, so we get disparagement, deflection and obfuscation.

My view is directly from the bible and therefore is not "abhorrent" or "self centered" My view exults God by believing His words are true. And finally you repeat the falsehood I claim to have "conjured up" meritorious faith. Folks, more change the subject bogus charges from Charge-O-Matic. Jesus said, your faith has saved you. He did not say the faith I instilled via irresistible grace saved you. Pay no attention to those who nullify and make to no effect the very words of God.

Scripture says we are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. God credits our faith as righteousness. God chooses those who are poor to the world, rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God. Trust in God and not in fake theology.

Van, so many have already provided scripture to utterly refute you. You are wrong, yet too stubborn to admit it.

 

[utilyan]

He didn't let him...he ordained that it would be the very means of atonement for his chosen children.

You demand that God applaud your choice as though you are something special.

It's all about you. Such a man-centered view of God. You make Him less than He is. It's a pity.

NOPE. Its your man-centered view of seeking a license to sin.

Luke 16

18“Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.




If God had it his way he Adam and Eve would have never fell. Your view of God wants sin.

I can teach a dog to sit. You claim is that God can teach a man to do two things, jack and squat.

Of course you don't think you can stop sinning, I wouldn't either if I had an idiot for a god-teacher.

 

[MennoSota]

NOPE. Its your man-centered view of seeking a license to sin.

Luke 16

18“Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.




If God had it his way he Adam and Eve would have never fell. Your view of God wants sin.

I can teach a dog to sit. You claim is that God can teach a man to do two things, jack and squat.

Of course you don't think you can stop sinning, I wouldn't either if I had an idiot for a god-teacher.

Sorry, there is no license to sin. Romans 6 is clear.
You desire that God be subservient to your own will and that he praise you for your good choice. That is a man-centered view that lifts up yourself while attempting to bring God down. It's not unlike what Satan did in heaven. Pride does that.

 

[Van]

Van, so many have already provided scripture to utterly refute you. You are wrong, yet too stubborn to admit it.

Folks, all Calvinism can offer in defense of its fake theology is "taint so and you are rotten for saying so." That is the sum and substance of the above post and all the rest.

1) Unconditional Election has been shown to be unbiblical. Conditional Election has been shown to be biblical in verse after verse, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:5, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24.

2) Why is it harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. If unconditional election was valid, it would be same for all.

3) Why did God choose "not many" wealthy or powerful or well born? Could it be it is harder for them to be "poor in spirit."

4) Why does God oppose the proud but give grace to the humble?

On and on, folks, the evidence is overwhelming. So all they can say is taint so and you are rotten for saying so. We are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth!

 

[utilyan]

Sorry, there is no license to sin. Romans 6 is clear.
You desire that God be subservient to your own will and that he praise you for your good choice. That is a man-centered view that lifts up yourself while attempting to bring God down. It's not unlike what Satan did in heaven. Pride does that.

11“But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12“Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

Who is the greatest among all humans? Me right? I am the "SUBSERVIENT SERVANT" .or is Jesus Christ the greatest among all humans?

Folks, all Calvinism can offer in defense of its fake theology is "taint so and you are rotten for saying so." That is the sum and substance of the above post and all the rest.

1) Unconditional Election has been shown to be unbiblical. Conditional Election has been shown to be biblical in verse after verse, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:5, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24.

2) Why is it harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. If unconditional election was valid, it would be same for all.

3) Why did God choose "not many" wealthy or powerful or well born? Could it be it is harder for them to be "poor in spirit."

4) Why does God oppose the proud but give grace to the humble?

On and on, folks, the evidence is overwhelming. So all they can say is taint so and you are rotten for saying so. We are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth!

Awesome catch with the rich man.

Matthew 19

23And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24“Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Menno, is it harder for a Calvinist to use common sense then for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven?

 

[MennoSota]

Folks, all Calvinism can offer in defense of its fake theology is "taint so and you are rotten for saying so." That is the sum and substance of the above post and all the rest.

1) Unconditional Election has been shown to be unbiblical. Conditional Election has been shown to be biblical in verse after verse, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:5, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24.

2) Why is it harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. If unconditional election was valid, it would be same for all.

3) Why did God choose "not many" wealthy or powerful or well born? Could it be it is harder for them to be "poor in spirit."

4) Why does God oppose the proud but give grace to the humble?

On and on, folks, the evidence is overwhelming. So all they can say is taint so and you are rotten for saying so. We are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth!

Because God is Sovereign and you are not.
Your argument has nothing to so with conditional election. Your argument is that you demand God do what you demand. Your argument is for your will to usurp God's will.
The Bible soundly rejects your man-centered claims.

 

[MennoSota]

11“But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12“Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

Who is the greatest among all humans? Me right? I am the "SUBSERVIENT SERVANT" .or is Jesus Christ the greatest among all humans?








Awesome catch with the rich man.

Matthew 19

23And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24“Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Menno, is it harder for a Calvinist to use common sense then for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven?

Jesus is the King of Kings.

All humans are poor and wretched when they are called to enter God's Kingdom. No one who thinks they are rich will ever enter the Kingdom.

This is Bible 101 and you have failed the class.

 

[utilyan]

Jesus is the King of Kings.

All humans are poor and wretched when they are called to enter God's Kingdom. No one who thinks they are rich will ever enter the Kingdom.

This is Bible 101 and you have failed the class.

Everyone is trying to control God except the sinless undepraved menno who thinks the rich are just as likely to enter heaven.

I think the young rich boy was called. As I recall Jesus told him leave it all and follow me. There is no question what kind of rich Jesus was talking about.

Its only people who seek license to sin want to twist the words.

Jesus thought he was rich, so it doesn't matter what one thinks.

 

[MennoSota]

Everyone is trying to control God except the sinless undepraved menno who thinks the rich are just as likely to enter heaven.

I think the young rich boy was called. As I recall Jesus told him leave it all and follow me. There is no question what kind of rich Jesus was talking about.

Its only people who seek license to sin want to twist the words.

Jesus thought he was rich, so it doesn't matter what one thinks.

You don't seem to be able to grasp what I said.

Richness is not a financial number. If that were so, the Centurion who showed great faith could never have been saved. He was very wealthy when it comes to money. He was very powerful among men.
So, the rich man that Yeshua is talking about must be someone who pridefully thinks he can control his own destiny (ie someone who thinks he can choose God and have God applaud him for such a great choice). That kind of prideful spirit has no place at the banquet table with God.

Finally, no one who has been adopted by God goes about seeking license to sin. To infer such, as you have done, is to be a moron. Thus I find your comments moronic.