EPH 2:1 Quickeneth

[BaptistBob]

You have no basis to make the assertion that "many Cals/Reformed" believe that faith precedes regeneration. That is just wishful thinking on your part.

Umm...No, that is the view of the vast majority of Calvinists. Just google "regeneration precedes faith" and find articles by your favorite Calvinists. Chafer's systematic theology is one of the few exceptions, if memory serves me.

 

[BaptistBob]

Then shall we start with Genesis 1:1.

I suggest you start with John 3:3-12 and work your way back.

A mature discussion of Joh 3:3-12 would be fantisic. In fact, I agree with the bulk of modern Calvinist commentators, like D. A Carson (my old prof.) and Tenney, concerning the meaning of the passage. The passage does not help your cause, I must say.

We should also do John chapter 1, since that also seems to be a point of contention. Oh heck, let's do chapters 6 and 10 while we're at it.

 

[OldRegular]

A mature discussion of Joh 3:3-12 would be fantisic. In fact, I agree with the bulk of modern Calvinist commentators, like D. A Carson (my old prof.) and Tenney, concerning the meaning of the passage. The passage does not help your cause, I must say.

We should also do John chapter 1, since that also seems to be a point of contention.

Well BB I have found that debating those who believe they, not God, are responsible for their salvation is a useless task. Those who believe in the big I will always reject the Biblical Doctrines of Grace.

 

[OldRegular]

If that is truth, then I'm sure you can produce scripture which in context states this.

I have already produced it. You are either not sufficiently perceptive to understand it or willfully not believing it.

 

[BaptistBob]

Well BB I have found that debating those who believe they, not God, are responsible for their salvation is a useless task. Those who believe in the big I will always reject the Biblical Doctrines of Grace.

Hardly. My only fear is to be on the wrong side of the issue.

It seems to me that the common theme here among the "Reformed" is that their perspective is the measuring stick. My measuring stick is Scripture. Let the cards fall where they may. I'm always reforming.

 

[Rippon]

Umm...No, that is the view of the vast majority of Calvinists. Just google "regeneration precedes faith" and find articles by your favorite Calvinists.

WOW, are you ever wrong. Now you're saying that "the vast majority of Calvinists" claim that faith preceeds regeneration. You're totally wrong. You might as well claim that Calvinists are Arminian.

I googled the first two pages and found none of the sites claiming to be Calvinistic bought into your faith preceeds regeneration theory. Now there were plenty of synergistic sites who argued against regeneration preceeding faith though.

 

[Rippon]

It seems to me that the common theme here among the "Reformed" is that their perspective is the measuring stick. My measuring stick is Scripture. Let the cards fall where they may.

You're pompous and arrogant to even suggest that Calvinists don't use the Scripture to determine doctrinal truths.

 

[BaptistBob]

WOW, are you ever wrong. Now you're saying that "the vast majority of Calvinists" claim that faith preceeds regeneration. You're totally wrong. You might as well claim that Calvinists are Arminian.

I googled the first two pages and found none of the sites claiming to be Calvinistic bought into your faith preceeds regeneration theory. Now there were plenty of synergistic sites who argued against regeneration preceeding faith though.

Sorry, I thought you said the opposite. That's why I mentioned Chafer as being the exception. My mistake.

 

[BaptistBob]

You're pompous and arrogant to even suggest that Calvinists don't use the Scripture to determine doctrinal truths.

I didn't. I suggested that some of my opponents are doing that, if I take their words at face value.

 

[TomMann]

I didn't. I suggested that some of my opponents are doing that, if I take their words at face value.

How do you determine whether your opponents have based their beliefs upon scripture or not?

 

[RAdam]

I'll keep asking this question: what do you do with the person that never heard the gospel?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by BaptistBob
I didn't. I suggested that some of my opponents are doing that, if I take their words at face value.

How do you determine whether your opponents have based their beliefs upon scripture or not?

Apparently on this Forum we have medical doctors, psychiatrists, psychoanalysts, psychologists, and now we have a psychic. This last one is scary.

 

[Amy.G]

I'll keep asking this question: what do you do with the person that never heard the gospel?

Pray for them.

 

[webdog]

You're pompous and arrogant to even suggest that Calvinists don't use the Scripture to determine doctrinal truths.

Yet I see you did not condemn oldregular for this statement...

Well BB I have found that debating those who believe they, not God, are responsible for their salvation is a useless task. Those who believe in the big I will always reject the Biblical Doctrines of Grace.

Selective reading...or clear bias?

 

[webdog]

I'll keep asking this question: what do you do with the person that never heard the gospel?

You can keep asking, but until you accept the truth behind the question, you will never get the answer you are looking for.

 

[OldRegular]

Yet I see you did not condemn oldregular for this statement...

Well BB I have found that debating those who believe they, not God, are responsible for their salvation is a useless task. Those who believe in the big I will always reject the Biblical Doctrines of Grace.

Selective reading...or clear bias?

Heh webdog

I did call them the Biblical Doctrines of Grace, not OR's doctrines of grace.

 

[BaptistBob]

I'll keep asking this question: what do you do with the person that never heard the gospel?

God is the God of both space and time. He can order things so that all who would believe will hear the gospel. That's something that nearly everyone can agree with, regardless of their theology. Any explanations beyond that are certainly worth considering.

 

[webdog]

Heh webdog

I did call them the Biblical Doctrines of Grace, not OR's doctrines of grace.

And your point?

 

[RAdam]

All who believe what?

 

[ray Marshall]

Well BB I have found that debating those who believe they, not God, are responsible for their salvation is a useless task. Those who believe in the big I will always reject the Biblical Doctrines of Grace.

Old Regular, you are correct. Working for heaven is a popular doctrine but some will not submit to the Doctrines of Grace and that is a pitiful state to be in. Believing thay you have to manufacture your own self in order to become a child of GOD is a mighty task that goes nowhere.