Ephesians 1 Clearly teaches Calvinism as to Salvation

[Gup20]

I'm not related to Abraham by blood...only the members of the 12 tribes are.
With that in mind, I'm guessing you're speaking of spiritual descendants, not physical.

Yes. From the beginning of the covenant, it was ALWAYS meant to be given to the adopted descendants of Abraham. In fact, by calling him Abraham and not Abram we are declaring this fact.

Gen 17:3-8 NASB 3 Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying, 4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a multitude of nations. 5 "No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. 6 "I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you. 7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. 8 "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

So clearly, these "descendants from many nations" are not just the descendants from one nation... so it's always been meant to be more than just the Jews.

Gal 3:6-9 NASB 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
Gal 3:26
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Gal 4:24-28 NASB 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these [women] are two covenants: one [proceeding] from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND." 28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Christ died once ( Hebrews 10:14 ) to atone for the sins of His people ( Matthew 1:21 ).
Believers inherit the righteousness of Christ as part of their inheritance.
They walk in the same footsteps as their spiritual father, Abraham, and have the faith of their Lord, Jesus Christ, which is a gift ( Ephesians 2:8-9 ).

Except for faith being something inflicted on people rather than a choice, I agree with this.

Deuteronomy 30 is THE CHAPTER in scripture that explicitly refutes Calvinism. First, it says 3 times in that chapter that life and death is a choice that God sets before man. Then it says that the choice is NOT MADE IN HEAVEN.

Deuteronomy 30:1
So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you,
Deuteronomy 30:6
Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.
Deuteronomy 30:11
For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?
Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity;
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Of course this is quoted by Paul in relation to salvation:

Rom 10:6-9 NASB 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

 

[Dave G]

The "not of yourselves" doesn't relate to faith, but to the saving. If it were by works you would earn it, but since it's by faith through inheritance, it is a gift.

According to God's word, how does one get the faith to inherit salvation?

Just as the children do not earn an inheritance from their father, they get it freely.

I agree.
God's children are given an inheritance ( 1 Peter 1:4 ) from God the Father.

Question:
According to Scripture, how does a person know that they are a child of God?

No, eternal life is a promise God makes to the seed of Abraham.

Physical seed or spiritual seed?
Are you saying that a person has to be a physical descendant of the 12 tribes in order to be saved?

Faith is the means by which we purchase entry into that familial relationship.

That's what I was looking for.
However, there's where we disagree.
Faith is evidence, not a means to an end ( Hebrews 11:1 ).

You are still making the same mistake of Calvin and Arminius in seeing faith and righteousness as direct. They are indirect. Faith qualifies you in the family of Abraham, and the descendants inherit righteousness.

They are direct.
Christ took upon Him the believer's sins ( 1 Peter 2:24, Romans 3:21-26 ), and His righteousness in imputed to them ( Romans 4:3-8, Romans 4:19-25 ).
According to God's word, how many individuals are given the faith to believe?

You get regenerated and indwelled for being qualified as a descendant of Abraham.

Physically, or spiritually?
Who determines whether or not someone is qualified to be a descendant of Abraham?

Except for faith being something inflicted on people rather than a choice, I agree with this.

"Inflicted"?
So you're saying that getting faith is a choice, and not a gift?

 

[Gup20]

According to God's word, how does one get the faith to inherit salvation?

Faith is mere belief... but true mere belief. For example, if I said "See that car speeding towards me... it's not going to hit me" and then at the last moment I dove out of the way of the vehicle, my actions would have demonstrated my true, inner belief that the car was indeed going to hit me. Similarly, saving faith is belief that is true enough to cause behavior.

Rom 10:16
However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?”
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Believing a news report is all that is required. It doesn't take a spiritual gift nor regeneration to believe a news report. Faith is not "given" but as Deuteronomy 30 says - it is a choice God sets before man... it is not too difficult for man to choose nor is it out of his reach, nor is the decision made by God in heaven, but it is a human decision.

Rom 8:15
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

I don't agree with the concept of COMPLETE FREE WILL. I think, as it pertains to salvation God gives man a distinct, binary choice: life or death... The Blessing or The Curse.

Deu 30:19
“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Its like giving your child a choice for breakfast; "you can have waffles or pancakes this morning... but trust me, the pancakes are amazing you should choose the pancakes." God doesn't lose sovereignty over salvation by offering this choice, just as the parent who offers the choice of breakfast items hasn't lost sovereignty over breakfast (the child can't choose steak & eggs for breakfast for example).

According to Scripture, how does a person know that they are a child of God?

If we have love for God and others, and if we know his voice.

Physical seed or spiritual seed?
Are you saying that a person has to be a physical descendant of the 12 tribes in order to be saved?

I'm not entirely sure if the distinction means you have to be a spiritual descendant to be saved or if both the physical and spiritual descendants are counted as the seed. I lean towards spiritual descendant only because of Galatians 4 where it talks about the story of Hagar and Ishmael and how Ishmael represents the physical heir, whereas Isaac represents the spiritual seed (Ishmael was, after all the firstborn). Just as Jacob wasn't the firstborn, but inherited the promise, and Esau was hated. In Galatians 4 it says Hagar and Ishmael were cast out so that Isaac could inherit. I do leave room for a dual simultaneous meaning (meaning both physical & spiritual) because I'm not all knowing, but I lean towards spiritual only.

Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Gal 4:30
But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”

Jhn 8:39
They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus *said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham.
43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

If faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God... and Jesus says in John 8 that they "cannot hear his word" he is disqualifying them as descendants of God and Abraham and instead qualifying them as descendants of Satan.

 

[Gup20]

Faith is evidence, not a means to an end ( Hebrews 11:1 ).

I see where you are going there, but I disagree. If faith were a "thing" rather than merely a firmly held belief then it could be "gifted" in the way you are envisioning, yes. However, I would then ask - how much does faith weight, and what is it's size and shape? Can I hold it in my hands or in a wheelbarrow, or in a trailer? You must, then, acknowledge that it is a "thing" that only exists in the mind, it is not made out of matter. It is a "mental substance" which is exactly what a firmly held belief is. Hebrews 11 isn't saying faith is not mere belief, it's saying that whereas we would normally turn to something material as the evidence upon which we base our belief, we must put faith (or firmly held belief, or a better word is "trust") in that place as the foundation of our trust and hope.

They are direct.
Christ took upon Him the believer's sins ( 1 Peter 2:24, Romans 3:21-26 ), and His righteousness in imputed to them ( Romans 4:3-8, Romans 4:19-25 ).
According to God's word, how many individuals are given the faith to believe?

To "impute" is to credit. Even that is not direct.... a credit is not hard currency, but it is the promise future payment. Insomuch it is direct as the righteousness I inherit is Christ's righteousness and not some intermediary's righteousness, and the sin which is forgiven in the exchange is my sin, yes. However, it's application is indirect through inheritance. I am not immediately redeemed in whole upon having faith. I am not resurrected in body, soul, & spirit upon the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Phl 3:9-12 NASB 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from [the] Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which [comes] from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained [it] or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

Rom 4:9-13 NASB 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Eph 1:13-14 NASB 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of [God's own] possession, to the praise of His glory.

Colossians 2:11
and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Deuteronomy 30:6
“Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

The Holy Spirit in us is spiritual circumcision- the seal of the righteousness we obtain by faith (just as physical circumcision was a seal of the righteousness Abraham obtained by his faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ). But as Ephesians 1 says... it is a pledge & promise of the full inheritance yet to come.

Physically, or spiritually?
Who determines whether or not someone is qualified to be a descendant of Abraham?

Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
Deu 30:19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Two witnesses are required by The Law... one from heaven and one from earth. This is why I do hold to the view that salvation is synergistic.

"Inflicted"?
So you're saying that getting faith is a choice, and not a gift?

No, I'm saying one does not "get faith"... one chooses whether or not to believe. You are confusing the spiritual gift of faith with salvation faith. Spiritual gifts are given to God's children ... they are manifestations of the Holy Spirit residing within us. The Spirit must be there (meaning they have already believed) already in order to have a manifestation of the spirit.

1Co 12:4-11 NASB 4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all [persons.] 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another [various] kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

If you interpretation of this passage is correct, you would have to acknowledge that those who prophesy, heal, have wisdom, do miracles, etc do not have salvation faith. By this verse, only some of those indwelled with the Holy Spirit are given faith as a spiritual gift. Yet we know from Ephesians 1 that the Holy Spirit indwells AFTER one has believed, so the faith here is a spiritual manifestation of the Holy Spirit within an already saved person. It is extra, above and beyond salvation faith.

Eph 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[loDebar]

John Calvin wa sone of the greatest theologians God ever gave to His church though!

He was a punk, killing other Christians

 

[Gup20]

He was a punk, killing other Christians

So was Saul of Tarsus, but God used him. I don't doubt his faith in Christ, though I think him wrong (just as wrong as Arminius) on this.

 

[Gup20]

Saul was converted Calvin never was. Calvin teachings are used by the devil to impure God and it is accepted by Believers

Faith in the Gospel is the only requirement for salvation... having perfect theology is never listed as a prerequisite to eternal life. In fact, the first Christian, Abraham, knew far less about the Gospel than Calvin.

Gal 3:6-9 NASB 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

If Abraham's simple and non-detailed knowledge of The Gospel was sufficient for making him righteous, then I think Calvin probably had that in spades.

 

[loDebar]

Abraham lived by faith and was shown in his righteous actions , Calvin justified killing of those who do accept his teaching and criticized him

In 5 years as magistrate of the Geneva “church-city-state,” Calvin oversaw 58 death sentences and the exile of 76 people. He wasn't the sole decision-maker in those cases, but personal correspondence and city council records betray his extraordinary influence. When Jacques Gruet, a theologian with differing views, placed a letter in Calvin’s pulpit calling him a hypocrite, he was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547. Gruet's own theological book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch.

 

[Gup20]

Abraham lived by faith and was shown in his righteous actions , Calvin justified killing of those who do accept his teaching and criticized him

In 5 years as magistrate of the Geneva “church-city-state,” Calvin oversaw 58 death sentences and the exile of 76 people. He wasn't the sole decision-maker in those cases, but personal correspondence and city council records betray his extraordinary influence. When Jacques Gruet, a theologian with differing views, placed a letter in Calvin’s pulpit calling him a hypocrite, he was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547. Gruet's own theological book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch.

Seems like a pretty bad dude... do you think your own sins are less sinful than Calvin's? This is a mental exercise I like to use to understand how sinful sin really is:

Take the action of killing a living creature; lets apply this action to several situations to understand the nature of sin. First, lets say that you kill an ant. Is this a very evil action? Now lets say you do the same action - killing a living creature - and perpetrate it against a family's beloved pet dog. Is this action the same as killing the ant, or is this worse than killing the ant? Now lets say you perpetrate the same action - killing a living creature - against a human being... one created in God's image. Is this action the same as, or more evil than killing the beloved dog? We would probably all agree that killing the person was orders of magnitude worse than killing the dog which was orders of magnitude worse than killing the ant. But why? What is the difference? Didn't you do the same action in all 3 instances - killing a living creature? The difference was the thing you were perpetrating the action against. The severity of the action depended upon whom it was being committed against. Now lets say you commit a sinful act against God - an infinite being. How "evil" would this action be? It would be infinitely evil because of who God is. The only justice for an infinitely evil action is an infinite punishment (that's what Hell is).

So again, I would ask - are your infinitely evil actions against God better or worse than John Calvin's infinitely evil actions against God? Of course the answer is that there is no difference between our sin and John Calvin's sin in the eyes of God. Both are infinitely evil and justly deserve an infinite penalty.

 

[Yeshua1]

Saul was converted Calvin never was. Calvin teachings are used by the devil to impure God and it is accepted by Believers

Actually, you MUST see what Calvin did with the heretic based upon the standards and values of His time, as he gave him plenty of time to repent of his heresy, but he refused to so such, and at that time he was found guilty of something worthy to them of death!
And Calvin had flaws and faults, but still rates among the greatest theologians that were not Apostles !

 

[loDebar]

Seems like a pretty bad dude... do you think your own sins are less sinful than Calvin's? This is a mental exercise I like to use to understand how sinful sin really is:

Take the action of killing a living creature; lets apply this action to several situations to understand the nature of sin. First, lets say that you kill an ant. Is this a very evil action? Now lets say you do the same action - killing a living creature - and perpetrate it against a family's beloved pet dog. Is this action the same as killing the ant, or is this worse than killing the ant? Now lets say you perpetrate the same action - killing a living creature - against a human being... one created in God's image. Is this action the same as, or more evil than killing the beloved dog? We would probably all agree that killing the person was orders of magnitude worse than killing the dog which was orders of magnitude worse than killing the ant. But why? What is the difference? Didn't you do the same action in all 3 instances - killing a living creature? The difference was the thing you were perpetrating the action against. The severity of the action depended upon whom it was being committed against. Now lets say you commit a sinful act against God - an infinite being. How "evil" would this action be? It would be infinitely evil because of who God is. The only justice for an infinitely evil action is an infinite punishment (that's what Hell is).

So again, I would ask - are your infinitely evil actions against God better or worse than John Calvin's infinitely evil actions against God? Of course the answer is that there is no difference between our sin and John Calvin's sin in the eyes of God. Both are infinitely evil and justly deserve an infinite penalty.

no even the point, he is idolized by those who should know the truth

 

[loDebar]

Actually, you MUST see what Calvin did with the heretic based upon the standards and values of His time, as he gave him plenty of time to repent of his heresy, but he refused to so such, and at that time he was found guilty of something worthy to them of death!
And Calvin had flaws and faults, but still rates among the greatest theologians that were not Apostles !

He did it to everybody, anybody. especially

On October 27, 1553, Servetus was bound to a stake with a rope twisted around his neck, his book tied to an arm, and a Protestant fire—fueled by green wood to make it burn slowly—stirring below. It took thirty minutes for Servetus to die, but by all accounts he suffered the ordeal bravely. Defenders of Calvin like to point out that he favored the more merciful execution of beheading rather than burning, but was overruled by Genevan officials. If that qualifies as a point in Calvin’s favor, so be it. In my judgment, among major thinkers the western world has rarely if ever seen a more intolerant, arrogant, and sadistic mentality than the mind of John Calvin.

 

[Yeshua1]

He did it to everybody, anybody. especially

On October 27, 1553, Servetus was bound to a stake with a rope twisted around his neck, his book tied to an arm, and a Protestant fire—fueled by green wood to make it burn slowly—stirring below. It took thirty minutes for Servetus to die, but by all accounts he suffered the ordeal bravely. Defenders of Calvin like to point out that he favored the more merciful execution of beheading rather than burning, but was overruled by Genevan officials. If that qualifies as a point in Calvin’s favor, so be it. In my judgment, among major thinkers the western world has rarely if ever seen a more intolerant, arrogant, and sadistic mentality than the mind of John Calvin.

Again, in the context of his times, what he did was normal for the time...

 

[loDebar]

Again, in the context of his times, what he did was normal for the time...

Normal for the Catholic inquisition, not those who protested
He continued to persecute the same ones as the Catholics.

 

[Dave G]

Respectfully, gentlemen,

What does any of that have to do with this?

" Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 grace [be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." ( Ephesians 1:1-14 )

 

[Dave G]

Its like giving your child a choice for breakfast; "you can have waffles or pancakes this morning... but trust me, the pancakes are amazing you should choose the pancakes." God doesn't lose sovereignty over salvation by offering this choice, just as the parent who offers the choice of breakfast items hasn't lost sovereignty over breakfast (the child can't choose steak & eggs for breakfast for example).

God never offered man a choice, Gup20.

" See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 in that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong ]your] days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 that thou mayest love the Lord thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he [is] thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them." ( Deuteronomy 30: 15-20 )

No part of the above applies to mankind as a whole, it only applies to the Jews as a nation.
God is speaking through His prophet Moses to His chosen nation of Israel, under the covenant He made with them, for the sake of their fathers...Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
He is telling them that under the covenant that He has made, they will have life or death, blessing and cursing...it is an earthly covenant, with earthly commandments.

Moses begins his address here:

" These [are] the words of the covenant, which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
2 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land;
3 the great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
4 yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.
6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the Lord your God.
7 And when ye came unto this place, Sihon the king of Heshbon, and Og the king of Bashan, came out against us unto battle, and we smote them:
8 and we took their land, and gave it for an inheritance unto the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to the half tribe of Manasseh.
9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do." ( Deuteronomy 29:1-9 )

No part of these passages ever applied to mankind as a whole...nor will they ever.
They only ever applied to Israel under the first covenant of Law.


May God bless you sir.

 

[loDebar]

He was speaking to those who had already made a choice , God has chosen but we have to accept Him in our free will.

 

[Dave G]

He was speaking to those who had already made a choice

Mankind has already made its choice...to hate God and to love their sin ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20 ).

God has chosen but we have to accept Him in our free will.

There is nothing in the Bible about "accepting Jesus Christ into your heart", but there is about being accepted of Him ( Ephesians 1:6 )
Believers are MADE acceptable to Him, by God.

We do not make ourselves acceptable....and we do not enter into covenants with the Lord.
It was always He who initiated any covenant with men.




His blessings upon you, if it should be His will.

 

[loDebar]

He call us
Luk 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners torepentance.

He gave us the opportunity ,
Jhn 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

the result

Rom 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[Gup20]

Respectfully, gentlemen,

What does any of that have to do with this?

" Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 grace [be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." ( Ephesians 1:1-14 )

Just how does God choose whom His holy people are?

Deuteronomy 7:6
For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples,
8 but because the LORD loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the LORD brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

Nehemiah 9:7
You are the LORD God, Who chose Abram And brought him out from Ur of the Chaldees, And gave him the name Abraham.
8 You found his heart faithful before You, And made a covenant with him To give him the land of the Canaanite, Of the Hittite and the Amorite, Of the Perizzite, the Jebusite and the Girgashite— To give it to his descendants. And You have fulfilled Your promise, For You are righteous.

John 6:64
But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

1Peter 1:2
[chosen] according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

John Calvin himself said of God’s predestined elect, “God has attested this [predestination] not only in individual persons, but has given us an example of it in the whole offspring of Abraham."

So even John Calvin recognized that God chose Abraham’s descendants as a group, and not each person individually. God’s elect (or chosen) are those who inherit the oath he made with Abraham. Those who are qualified as heirs of the promise or covenant.

Galatians 3:7
Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.

Galatians 3:9
So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

Galatians 3:29
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Romans 9:4
who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,
5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED."
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Calvin didn’t realize that all Christians are saved by becoming qualified as part of the group of the “offspring of Abraham.” He mistakenly thought we all obtain righteousness the same way Abraham did – directly for his faith. However, this would mean that Christ (or some other sinless figures) would have to die once for each person who was saved – a life for a life. In the same way that we all inherited death from Adam, so too have we all inherited Christ’s righteousness. Christ directly exchanged (redeemed) His righteousness with Abraham, and then God promised Abraham that this righteousness would be an inheritance to all his descendants.

As Deuteronomy 30 says, you don't need to be regenerated to make the choice... it is a choice God commands us to make, not a choice God makes in heaven.