Exeedingly Sad

[saturneptune]

This thread is a paradox to me. Here is exactly how I feel about it. My testimony is very similar to EWR and OR. I have never had a cross word with OR or EWF. Both believe in Docrtines of Grace as I do. Their posts are encouraging, edifying, and truthful. It is not my habit to agree with the free will side, but neither do I bash them into eternity.

The focus of the problem in this whole debate is one poster, Icon. He claims to be on the same side as the ones mentioned above and HoS, and, others to a degree. Yet, he never has one positive thing to say in any of his posts. Between the name calling, the arrogance, and the obnoxious words, there is no evidence to support his claim of a lock of the truth of the Lord. His posts are demeaning, not edifying, and never say an encouraging word. The fruits of the Holy Spirit appear to be as distant as the edge of the universe. There has been more damage done by this one individual on this subject than the collective posts of anyone else who ever posted.

The presents a dilemma. It hurts the cause of those of us who do believe in predestination, as in Romans 8:28-30. Arminians owe him a debt of gratitude. While I have never been to seminary, lots of those I am friends with have, and I will take their collective knowledge and wisdom, my own studies, and learning from many pastors over a mail order Bible course worked at truck stops.

 

[Herald]

SN,

I have learned that formal theological education is a valuable asset, but it does nothing to develop Christian character. I know individuals whose eyes would glaze over if you asked them their opinion on the perspicuity of scripture. On the other hand these individuals exemplify Christ by word and deed. It is the latter who are Christ-like. The former are only Christ-like if their knowledge is accompanied by good Christian character.

As far as your opinion on Icon, it is unfortunate that you two do not see eye to eye. I have spoken with Icon, and I am convinced that he has a genuine love for God and of God's truth and glory. Perhaps it is his zeal for God's truth, and glory, that comes off poorly to you in this venue? If you recall, you and I got off to a rather shaky start at first, but over came that (Praise God!). I pray God grants the same outcome to Icon and you. In the meantime the only remedy I can think of is not to interact with each other for the time being.

 

[Winman]

The following quote from your initial post is incorrect! You obviously have no idea what my doctrine is though you have attempted to refute it for years.

Who said that God ordained one group of Christians to be Calvinist and another group of Christians to be nonCalvinist? Be specific please!

Many Reformed confessions say this, I will quote the Westminster Confession of Faith;

Chapter III. Of God's Eternal Decree
Section I.–God from all eternity did by the most and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

Section II.–Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions; yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, as that which would come to pass, upon such conditions.

Has it come to pass that you believe in Reformed theology?

Has it come to pass that I believe in non-Cal/Arminian theology?

Then according to this confession, it was unchangeably ordained by God. Now, that doesn't mean that God necessarily forced you to believe in the DoGs, or me to believe in Arminian theology, but it means that it was God's will that you be DoG, and I Arminian or non-Cal. Whatever God allows he must will, no?? That is YOUR VIEW.

So, when you try to convert me, you are fighting against God's will.

Even if you argue that God ordained you try to convert me, then God has ordained against himself, because he ordained that I should be an Arminian or non-Cal.

This is not complicated or difficult to understand at all. I think you clearly understand.

You see, your doctrine makeS God seem almost insane, he is fighting himself.

When Jesus cast out devils, the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting them out by Beelzebub.

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Jesus told the Pharisees that if he cast out devils by the power of Beelzebub, that would be the devil divided against himself. Even the old devil is smarter than that, and certainly God is much wiser than Satan.

So, God does not fight against himself. He would not ordain that Christians have opposing views.

So, it is illogical if God ordains all things for Christians to have opposing views.

 

[OldRegular]

Many Reformed confessions say this, I will quote the Westminster Confession of Faith;



Has it come to pass that you believe in Reformed theology?

Has it come to pass that I believe in non-Cal/Arminian theology?

Then according to this confession, it was unchangeably ordained by God. Now, that doesn't mean that God necessarily forced you to believe in the DoGs, or me to believe in Arminian theology, but it means that it was God's will that you be DoG, and I Arminian or non-Cal. Whatever God allows he must will, no?? That is YOUR VIEW.

So, when you try to convert me, you are fighting against God's will.

Even if you argue that God ordained you try to convert me, then God has ordained against himself, because he ordained that I should be an Arminian or non-Cal.

This is not complicated or difficult to understand at all. I think you clearly understand.

You see, your doctrine makeS God seem almost insane, he is fighting himself.

When Jesus cast out devils, the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting them out by Beelzebub.

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Jesus told the Pharisees that if he cast out devils by the power of Beelzebub, that would be the devil divided against himself. Even the old devil is smarter than that, and certainly God is much wiser than Satan.

So, God does not fight against himself. He would not ordain that Christians have opposing views.

So, it is illogical if God ordains all things for Christians to have opposing views.

Your problem Winman, and that of many others on this Board, perhaps even the Westminister divines, is that you attempt to constrain God by your supposed logic. I presented earlier the Scripture showing that God is not the Author of Confusion and he is not regardless of any attempts to make Him so.

Scripture also tells us:

Isaiah 55:6-11
6. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11. So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

In verses 8 & 9 God puts the wisdom/ways of each of us in it's proper place relative to His Wisdom and Ways. In verse 11 He tells us that His word accomplishes that which He chooses. I am comfortable with what God tells us in this passage. Are you?

Insofar as the Doctrines of Grace are concerned God through the Apostle Paul summarized these with the following Scripture:

Romans 8:28-30
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Luke2427]

Your problem Winman, and that of many others on this Board, perhaps even the Westminister divines, is that you attempt to constrain God by your supposed logic.

You could not be more wrong here.

First of all, the LAST thing on earth, in my opinion, that has any hold whatsoever on Winman is logic.

Secondly, logic comes FROM God. It is truth. The law of noncontradiction for example states that something cannot BE something and NOT BE that something at the same time.

That is the ESSENCE of truth. If something can be something and at the same time, in the same sense NOT be that something then NOTHING can be judged to be true.

If I can be here and NOT be here at the same time and in the same sense then there is absolutely no statement that you can make about my present location that is really true.

You may say, "You are there." But if the law of noncontradiction does not apply then that can be as much an absolute lie as it is perfectly true.

So NOTHING is ACTUALLY true if logic does not reign.

If the law of noncontradiction does not apply to God then nothing he ever says can be really true. It could be an absolute lie while being true.

There would be NO TRUTH if the law of noncontradiction does not reign.

But it does reign because it emanates from God just like LOVE emanates from God.

When Jesus said, "I am... the truth..." he was saying I do not ever contradict myself. What I say is true and in no sense false. Not only is what he SAYS true but his very ESSENCE is truth. He is just as much truth (noncontradiction) as he is LOVE.

That is the law of noncontradiction. It is logic. It is of God. It is eternal.

And your theology MUST... I repeat.... MUST be bound by it or your theology is absolute BUNK.

 

[Winman]

Your problem Winman, and that of many others on this Board, perhaps even the Westminister divines, is that you attempt to constrain God by your supposed logic. I presented earlier the Scripture showing that God is not the Author of Confusion and he is not regardless of any attempts to make Him so.

Scripture also tells us:

Isaiah 55:6-11
6. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11. So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

In verses 8 & 9 God puts the wisdom/ways of each of us in it's proper place relative to His Wisdom and Ways. In verse 11 He tells us that His word accomplishes that which He chooses. I am comfortable with what God tells us in this passage. Are you?

Insofar as the Doctrines of Grace are concerned God through the Apostle Paul summarized these with the following Scripture:

Romans 8:28-30
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

I agree 100% that God is not the God of confusion, that is why your doctrine MUST be error, because if it were true, God would be the author of confusion. He would have Christians holding opposing views, and his kingdom would be divided against itself.

You see, non-Cals do not believe God ordains all things that come to pass, we believe men have free will and therefore can hold opposing opinions and beliefs.

You on the other hand believe men can only hold those beliefs and opinions that God allows, and whatever particular belief a man holds is God's will for that man. But it is obvious there are many different and even opposing beliefs among Christians, so God must will that Christians oppose each other. His kingdom is divided against itself, which contradicts what Jesus taught.

 

[Winman]

First of all, the LAST thing on earth, in my opinion, that has any hold whatsoever on Winman is logic.

Well, there must be something to my arguments, because just about every Calvinist here feels the need to write about me often.

You WISH your posts would get that kind of attention. :thumbsup:

 

[percho]

You could not be more wrong here.

First of all, the LAST thing on earth, in my opinion, that has any hold whatsoever on Winman is logic.

Secondly, logic comes FROM God. It is truth. The law of noncontradiction for example states that something cannot BE something and NOT BE that something at the same time.

That is the ESSENCE of truth. If something can be something and at the same time, in the same sense NOT be that something then NOTHING can be judged to be true.

If I can be here and NOT be here at the same time and in the same sense then there is absolutely no statement that you can make about my present location that is really true.

You may say, "You are there." But if the law of noncontradiction does not apply then that can be as much an absolute lie as it is perfectly true.

So NOTHING is ACTUALLY true if logic does not reign.

If the law of noncontradiction does not apply to God then nothing he ever says can be really true. It could be an absolute lie while being true.

There would be NO TRUTH if the law of noncontradiction does not reign.

But it does reign because it emanates from God just like LOVE emanates from God.

When Jesus said, "I am... the truth..." he was saying I do not ever contradict myself. What I say is true and in no sense false. Not only is what he SAYS true but his very ESSENCE is truth. He is just as much truth (noncontradiction) as he is LOVE.

That is the law of noncontradiction. It is logic. It is of God. It is eternal.

And your theology MUST... I repeat.... MUST be bound by it or your theology is absolute BUNK.

One of the best post I have ever read and here is why.

Saved????

Eph. 2:8 must have the absolute same meaning as Titus 3:5 just as if we are saved by baptism and I believe we are then baptism must have the same absolute meaning as the previous, and this would go along with anything concerning saved. Thy word is truth. And also logical. Our theology must always be logical and true.

BTW I believe the water baptism of Jesus to be prophesy, washing of water, by the word (of God) with that prophesy bearing the same result as Eph. 2:8 and Titus 3:5.

 

[Luke2427]

Well, there must be something to my arguments, because just about every Calvinist here feels the need to write about me often.

You WISH your posts would get that kind of attention. :thumbsup:

It is the most ridiculous looking animal at the zoo which draws the most attention.

 

[OldRegular]

You could not be more wrong here.

First of all, the LAST thing on earth, in my opinion, that has any hold whatsoever on Winman is logic.

Secondly, logic comes FROM God. It is truth. The law of noncontradiction for example states that something cannot BE something and NOT BE that something at the same time.

That is the ESSENCE of truth. If something can be something and at the same time, in the same sense NOT be that something then NOTHING can be judged to be true.

If I can be here and NOT be here at the same time and in the same sense then there is absolutely no statement that you can make about my present location that is really true.

You may say, "You are there." But if the law of noncontradiction does not apply then that can be as much an absolute lie as it is perfectly true.

So NOTHING is ACTUALLY true if logic does not reign.

If the law of noncontradiction does not apply to God then nothing he ever says can be really true. It could be an absolute lie while being true.

There would be NO TRUTH if the law of noncontradiction does not reign.

But it does reign because it emanates from God just like LOVE emanates from God.

When Jesus said, "I am... the truth..." he was saying I do not ever contradict myself. What I say is true and in no sense false. Not only is what he SAYS true but his very ESSENCE is truth. He is just as much truth (noncontradiction) as he is LOVE.

That is the law of noncontradiction. It is logic. It is of God. It is eternal.

And your theology MUST... I repeat.... MUST be bound by it or your theology is absolute BUNK.

Yes, Jesus Christ did say: I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. I could not agree more the law of contradiction or noncontradiction notwithstanding. I would never accuse Jesus Christ of contradicting Himself or saying anything other than the TRUTH!

Isn't freedom wonderful. Freedom to be correct and freedom to be wrong, freedom to be wise and freedom to be foolish, freedom to agree and freedom to disagree! And I disagree with your post. But I never disagree with Scripture and the only thing that binds my theology is the Word of God. That being said I could care less if you think my theology is BUNK.

I stand by my statement to which you take exception:

Your problem Winman, and that of many others on this Board, perhaps even the Westminister divines, is that you attempt to constrain God by your supposed logic.

Should I assume that you also would like to constrain God by your logic. God is not bound by your logic/illogic or that of anyone else and that is a fact. God is not even bound by your inability to understand or appreciate Scripture.

 

[Luke2427]

Yes, Jesus Christ did say: I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. I could not agree more the law of contradiction or noncontradiction notwithstanding. I would never accuse Jesus Christ of contradicting Himself or saying anything other than the TRUTH!

Isn't freedom wonderful. Freedom to be correct and freedom to be wrong, freedom to be wise and freedom to be foolish, freedom to agree and freedom to disagree! And I disagree with your post. But I never disagree with Scripture and the only thing that binds my theology is the Word of God. That being said I could care less if you think my theology is BUNK.

I stand by my statement to which you take exception: Should I assume that you also would like to constrain God by your logic. God is not bound by your logic/illogic or that of anyone else and that is a fact. God is not even bound by your inability to understand or appreciate Scripture.

You can't constrain God by logic any more or less than you can constrain God by his holiness.

Is God constrained by holiness?

No- he just IS holy. Holiness is his essence, just like truth is. Therefore LOGIC is his essence. It is not about constraining him- it is about WHAT HE IS.

He IS logical.

He does not contradict himself.

So you CANNOT constrain him by what he is. That is silly. I am not constraining him by logic. I am saying that he IS logical.

Your disdain for logic makes you a madman. Any one deprived of logic is insane- plain and simple.

Spit on logic if you will but in so doing you spit on an attribute of God himself. And that truly is insane.

 

[OldRegular]

I agree 100% that God is not the God of confusion, that is why your doctrine MUST be error, because if it were true, God would be the author of confusion. He would have Christians holding opposing views, and his kingdom would be divided against itself.

You see, non-Cals do not believe God ordains all things that come to pass, we believe men have free will and therefore can hold opposing opinions and beliefs.

You on the other hand believe men can only hold those beliefs and opinions that God allows, and whatever particular belief a man holds is God's will for that man. But it is obvious there are many different and even opposing beliefs among Christians, so God must will that Christians oppose each other. His kingdom is divided against itself, which contradicts what Jesus taught.

Another problem Winman, and I have told you this many times, is that you do not have the foggiest idea what I believe. You have some preconceived idea about what your concept of Calvinists believe and and then you assume that I am bound by your misconceptions. I suspect that 90% of what you accuse me of believing is a figment of your imagination and is not based on anything I have posted!

 

[Luke2427]

Another problem Winman, and I have told you this many times, is that you do not have the foggiest idea what I believe. You have some preconceived idea about what your concept of Calvinists believe and and then you assume that I am bound by your misconceptions. I suspect that 90% of what you accuse me of believing is a figment of your imagination and is not based on anything I have posted!

If you don't beleive that God is logical then you don't truly BELIEVE ANYTHING.

If the creator of the universe can be something and not be that something at the same time and in the same sense then nothing in the universe he created is truly believable.

Without logic you do not believe in ANYTHING.

You can SAY you believe stuff, but that's just words. If at your core you do not ACTUALLY believe in the invincibility of logic, that for something to be true it must be logical, then you don't beleive in anything.

Why? Because in a world without logic anything can be anything and everything can be nothing and still be everything at the same time.

It is absolute madness.

 

[OldRegular]

You can't constrain God by logic

I believe that is what I have been saying. God cannot be constrained by your logic or that of anyone else.

any more or less than you can constrain God by his holiness. Is God constrained by holiness?

I would never attempt to constrain God. I am sort of like the old prophet Elijah:

1 Kings 18:21. And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

I choose to follow the LORD GOD!

No- he just IS holy. Holiness is his essence, just like truth is.

I agree that God is Holy and that He is self existent!

Therefore LOGIC is his essence. It is not about constraining him- it is about WHAT HE IS.

Now just where does it say that Logic is the essence of God? I am not familiar with that Scripture.

He IS logical.

Scripture please!

He does not contradict himself.

That goes without saying!

So you CANNOT constrain him by what he is. That is silly.

I have in no way attempted to constrain God. It is the "wanta be" logicians on this Board who apparently want to constrain God, to put HIM in their logicians box. I reject that as nonsense!

I am not constraining him by logic.

I am pleased to learn that because it appears that some on this Forum are chasing their tails trying to make God fit their logic. That is the impression I get from the OP of Skan I quoted which you so admired.

I am saying that he IS logical.

Scripture please.

Your disdain for logic makes you a madman. Any one deprived of logic is insane- plain and simple.

I am, or was, an engineer by profession. One thing about good engineers is that they are logical thinkers. Also as a practicing engineer I had a "Q" Security clearance so the FBI did not judge me insane. Currently I have an acquaintance who is a Christian Psychologist {PhD} and he has not apprised me of my insanity. Yet from your pastors desk in Mississippi you judge that I am insane!

Spit on logic if you will but in so doing you spit on an attribute of God himself. And that truly is insane.

You are unable to present any Scripture that speak of God and logic. That being said you are apparently unable to enter into a rational discussion with our resorting to despicable comments. That is so pathetic and yet you speak of yourself as follows: [

I was born again 17 years ago. I have been preaching the Gospel for 15 years.

 

[OldRegular]

If you don't beleive that God is logical then you don't truly BELIEVE ANYTHING.

You really are on a ROLL tonight Luke!

If the creator of the universe can be something and not be that something at the same time and in the same sense then nothing in the universe he created is truly believable.

Can you produce a quote where I made such an asinine statement?

Without logic you do not believe in ANYTHING.

Sure I do. I believe in GOD as revealed in Scripture. I believe in the Doctrines of Grace as revealed in Scripture. I believe that GOD saved me some 45 years ago and has kept me safe since they time. I believe that GOD is utterly HOLY and that HE cannot be put into any BOX by the puny mind of man.

You can SAY you believe stuff, but that's just words. If at your core you do not ACTUALLY believe in the invincibility of logic, that for something to be true it must be logical, then you don't beleive in anything.

I believe in the invincibility of GOD alone. I reject the invincibility of your logic! And your attempt at insults is pathetic!

In an earlier response to you I extolled the virtues of freedom:

Freedom to be correct and freedom to be wrong, freedom to be wise and freedom to be foolish, freedom to agree and freedom to disagree!

That being said you are free to believe in whatever you choose to make god!​

Why? Because in a world without logic anything can be anything and everything can be nothing and still be everything at the same time.

It is absolute madness.

I would say that a world without GOD is absolute madness! But if logic is your god have it your way!

 

[Luke2427]

I believe that is what I have been saying. God cannot be constrained by your logic or that of anyone else.

You don't get it.

Logic is not mine or yours or ANYBODY'S. It is of God. It is truth.

I would never attempt to constrain God. I am sort of like the old prophet Elijah:

Who has tried to constrain God???

Saying he will or will not or even that he can or can NOt do something is not constraining him- it is IDENTIFYING him.

Are you constraining God when you say, "God cannot lie"?

No.

Neither are you constraining God when you say, "God is logical."

I agree that God is Holy and that He is self existent!

and that he is logical?

Now just where does it say that Logic is the essence of God? I am not familiar with that Scripture.

Scripture please!

I just shared it with you!!

Pay attention PLEASE!

Did you not read a post or two ago where I said that Jesus said "I am the ... Truth..."

Did you not read where I reasoned that truth is something that does not contradict itself and is the ESSENCE of the law of logic known as THE LAW OF NONCONTRADICTION???

That goes without saying!

I have in no way attempted to constrain God. It is the "wanta be" logicians on this Board who apparently want to constrain God, to put HIM in their logicians box. I reject that as nonsense!

NNE IS TRYING TO PUT GOD IN A BOX.

You are NO MORE putting God in a box by saying that he is LOGICAL than you are putting God in a box by saying he is LOVE.

I am pleased to learn that because it appears that some on this Forum are chasing their tails trying to make God fit their logic.

The law of noncontradiction is not THEIR LOGIC!!!!!


It IS logic!!! It doesn't belong to ANYONE!!

God does not contradict himself- do you agree? You say "yes"- fine. Great.

THAT is logic.

So stop acting like somebody is trying make God fit into a box when YOU ALREADY AGREE THAT HE IS LOGICAL.

 

[Luke2427]

You really are on a ROLL tonight Luke!

Can you produce a quote where I made such an asinine statement?

I could but you wouldn't get it.

I'll try anyway. When you say that God is not "bound by logic" you are saying that logic does not apply to God.

You are saying that God does not HAVE to be logical.

If that is the case nothing he says can be trusted because, if he is not logical, he can mean it and not mean it AT THE SAME TIME. He can intend to do it and have NO intention to do it AT THE SAME TIME.

So nothing he says is trustworthy if he is not LOGICAL.

The REASON you trust him is because you believe he IS LOGICAL- that he DOES NOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF.

That is the LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION.

Sure I do. I believe in GOD as revealed in Scripture. I believe in the Doctrines of Grace as revealed in Scripture. I believe that GOD saved me some 45 years ago and has kept me safe since they time. I believe that GOD is utterly HOLY and that HE cannot be put into any BOX by the puny mind of man.

Those are just words. They don't mean anything if you believe God is not logical.

In your mind God, since he is not logical, an be holy and not holy at the same time.

I believe in the invincibility of GOD alone. I reject the invincibility of your logic! And your attempt at insults is pathetic!

You are angry man aren't you. I love how you get up on your snotty little self-righteous pedestal and lecture us all about being more loving and then you act like this.

God's logic is AS invincible as God's LOVE.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Look who is calling another pejoratives! Now I've seeneverything:laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

I could but you wouldn't get it.

I'll try anyway. When you say that God is not "bound by logic" you are saying that logic does not apply to God.

You are saying that God does not HAVE to be logical.

If that is the case nothing he says can be trusted because, if he is not logical, he can mean it and not mean it AT THE SAME TIME. He can intend to do it and have NO intention to do it AT THE SAME TIME.

So nothing he says is trustworthy if he is not LOGICAL.

The REASON you trust him is because you believe he IS LOGICAL- that he DOES NOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF.

That is the LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION.



Those are just words. They don't mean anything if you believe God is not logical.

In your mind God, since he is not logical, an be holy and not holy at the same time.



You are angry man aren't you. I love how you get up on your snotty little self-righteous pedestal and lecture us all about being more loving and then you act like this.

God's logic is AS invincible as God's LOVE.

Luke you are taking up a bad habit of Winman trying to dictate what I believe. But for the sake of you and Winman I will tell you what I believe. I believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of GOD and I believe that the Doctrines of Grace are revealed in that Word.

I will repeat one remark I posted about you earlier and then leave you alone as you commune with logic:

From post #94

I have in no way attempted to constrain God. It is the "wanta be" logicians on this Board who apparently want to constrain God, to put HIM in their logicians box. I reject that as nonsense! That being said you are apparently unable to enter into a rational discussion with our resorting to despicable comments. That is so pathetic and yet you speak of yourself as follows:

Originally Posted by Luke2427 in his BIO
I was born again 17 years ago. I have been preaching the Gospel for 15 years.

I am not the angry man Luke, you are! Read your rantings above and tell me you are not the angry one. Apparently your logical mind cannot accommodate the thought that someone might believe that your attempt to put the Sovereign GOD of the Bible and creator of all that exists in your little logician's box is an exercise in futility. Incidentally, I have never told anyone on this Forum that they should be more loving. Your logical mind has deceived you, Luke, and you have me confused with someone else!

Tell us all on this Forum Luke. When you present a sermon do you tell your congregation that LOGIC is the ESSENCE of GOD? Do you rant about the law of noncontradiction? Or perhaps in a moment of candor you preach about the GRACE of GOD, the unsearchable riches of GOD. If not then you should consider taking up other employment!

Tell us all on this Forum Luke. Is it LOGICAL that GOD could love a person who claims to preach the Gospel yet spews some of the vitriol you have in the above posts simply because I question your claim that the ESSENCE of GOD is LOGIC or that the so-called law of noncontradiction is SUPREME?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ahhhh Scripture!!!:love2:

Romans 9:14-22

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[a]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[c] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?