Exeedingly Sad

[Iconoclast]

Youz guyz believing your Archie Bunker style of scriptural interpretations to support your Determinist’ view and then claiming your specially enlightened wisdom and victory in the debate because of it would be comical, if your methods weren’t so …………………..”exceedingly sad”. :thumbs:

We have explained to you, Skan and others that your explanation of determinism is rejected as unbiblical fatalism which we do not believe.
So all these ill fated threads that start out with this flawed premise are rejected outright.

Old Regular posts direct scriptures that you are welcome to examine the context and see the validity of using those verses as support texts.
The verses answer your wrong speculations,carnal reasoning, and protests.
You seek in vain to dismiss scripture claiming cherry picking,and Archie Bunker mentality.You then deny and make light of the work of the Spirit in illuminating the mind to Divine truth saying this;

your specially enlightened wisdom

Perhaps if you had this happen to you more often you would lay down the weapons of your warfare and submit to God's word on these issues,instead of offering futile resistance:thumbsup:
Read some of J.L.Dagg and actually deal with the scriptures and theology offered ....based on the scripture as OR has consistently put before you and you will benefit.:thumbsup:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We have explained to you, Skan and others that your explanation of determinism is rejected as unbiblical fatalism which we do not believe.
So all these ill fated threads that start out with this flawed premise are rejected outright.

Old Regular posts direct scriptures that you are welcome to examine the context and see the validity of using those verses as support texts.
The verses answer your wrong speculations,carnal reasoning, and protests.
You seek in vain to dismiss scripture claiming cherry picking,and Archie Bunker mentality.You then deny and make light of the work of the Spirit in illuminating the mind to Divine truth saying this;


Perhaps if you had this happen to you more often you would lay down the weapons of your warfare and submit to God's word on these issues,instead of offering futile resistance:thumbsup:
Read some of J.L.Dagg and actually deal with the scriptures and theology offered ....based on the scripture as OR has consistently put before you and you will benefit.:thumbsup:

Thank you Icono.... that was well articulated w/o being combative.:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

This thread is a paradox to me. Here is exactly how I feel about it. My testimony is very similar to EWR and OR. I have never had a cross word with OR or EWF. Both believe in Docrtines of Grace as I do. Their posts are encouraging, edifying, and truthful. It is not my habit to agree with the free will side, but neither do I bash them into eternity.

The focus of the problem in this whole debate is one poster, Icon. He claims to be on the same side as the ones mentioned above and HoS, and, others to a degree. Yet, he never has one positive thing to say in any of his posts. Between the name calling, the arrogance, and the obnoxious words, there is no evidence to support his claim of a lock of the truth of the Lord. His posts are demeaning, not edifying, and never say an encouraging word. The fruits of the Holy Spirit appear to be as distant as the edge of the universe. There has been more damage done by this one individual on this subject than the collective posts of anyone else who ever posted.

The presents a dilemma. It hurts the cause of those of us who do believe in predestination, as in Romans 8:28-30. Arminians owe him a debt of gratitude. While I have never been to seminary, lots of those I am friends with have, and I will take their collective knowledge and wisdom, my own studies, and learning from many pastors over a mail order Bible course worked at truck stops.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

 

[Iconoclast]

Thank you Icono.... that was well articulated w/o being combative.:thumbs:

There is no need to be combative when not being personally attacked.
Benjamin,and Winman holds views that need to be opposed.
I have respect for them to a certain extent because they own up to their views and are trying to support their ideas as best thay can.{you cannot really support the indefensible] but they do not back off, they do not make believe they are your friend, then look to stab you in the back.
They are willing to come right at you and make their claims...come what will.
What usually follows is scripture offered. That is how it works:wavey:

Must get back to my online mail order study...at the truckstop:wavey:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is no need to be combative when not being personally attacked.
Benjamin,and Winman holds views that need to be opposed.

I completely agree!!!

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

What I get from all of this....

Another problem Winman, and I have told you this many times, is that you do not have the foggiest idea what I believe. You have some preconceived idea about what your concept of Calvinists believe and and then you assume that I am bound by your misconceptions. I suspect that 90% of what you accuse me of believing is a figment of your imagination and is not based on anything I have posted!

Reading through this thread...and all the other Cal/non-Cal/this Doctrine/that Doctrine type of debates that go on here on the Baptist Board and probably countless other Internet forums, I have come to several conclusions. #1...most of us are NOT successful debaters since the mark of a successful debater is that he/she actually convinces the other participants that their argument is indeed the truth and "makes" their point (and makes converts). I don't EVER see many "changed" minds in these debates....only marked polarization. #2...Truth is truth...it is absolute....it is black and white...so-called "gray" areas are only diluted truth/error. IF we all believed the "truth" there would be no more Calvinists, Arminians, pre-mills, post-mills,amills or any of the other isms and schisms or denominations (divisions) that currently make up the "body of Christ" in this generation. I submit that if we all truly BELIEVED the real Truth we'd have "made it"....we'd be (Romans 8:29) "conformed to the image of His Son" with no shades of error or darkness. It is nothing more than a "pipe-dream" to ever suppose that we can, in our fallen condition, ever achieve that state of existence while here on this earth in these corrupt bodies with these corrupt natures present (EVEN IF WE ARE SAVED). That day will only happen when we have made it to Glory and stand in His presence. All things will be essentially equal then with one notable exception....God will still be God...and we will still be beneath Him and subject to Him....but oh...what a blessed state THAT will be!! Even so,come Lord Jesus!

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Reading through this thread...and all the other Cal/non-Cal/this Doctrine/that Doctrine type of debates that go on here on the Baptist Board and probably countless other Internet forums, I have come to several conclusions. #1...most of us are NOT successful debaters since the mark of a successful debater is that he/she actually convinces the other participants that their argument is indeed the truth and "makes" their point (and makes converts). I don't EVER see many "changed" minds in these debates....only marked polarization. #2...Truth is truth...it is absolute....it is black and white...so-called "gray" areas are only diluted truth/error. IF we all believed the "truth" there would be no more Calvinists, Arminians, pre-mills, post-mills,amills or any of the other isms and schisms or denominations (divisions) that currently make up the "body of Christ" in this generation. I submit that if we all truly BELIEVED the real Truth we'd have "made it"....we'd be (Romans 8:29) "conformed to the image of His Son" with no shades of error or darkness. It is nothing more than a "pipe-dream" to ever suppose that we can, in our fallen condition, ever achieve that state of existence while here on this earth in these corrupt bodies with these corrupt natures present (EVEN IF WE ARE SAVED). That day will only happen when we have made it to Glory and stand in His presence. All things will be essentially equal then with one notable exception....God will still be God...and we will still be beneath Him and subject to Him....but oh...what a blessed state THAT will be!! Even so,come Lord Jesus!

Bro.Greg:saint:

That post is worthy of a :thumbsup:

 

[Iconoclast]

Reading through this thread...and all the other Cal/non-Cal/this Doctrine/that Doctrine type of debates that go on here on the Baptist Board and probably countless other Internet forums, I have come to several conclusions. #1...most of us are NOT successful debaters since the mark of a successful debater is that he/she actually convinces the other participants that their argument is indeed the truth and "makes" their point (and makes converts). I don't EVER see many "changed" minds in these debates....only marked polarization. #2...Truth is truth...it is absolute....it is black and white...so-called "gray" areas are only diluted truth/error. IF we all believed the "truth" there would be no more Calvinists, Arminians, pre-mills, post-mills,amills or any of the other isms and schisms or denominations (divisions) that currently make up the "body of Christ" in this generation. I submit that if we all truly BELIEVED the real Truth we'd have "made it"....we'd be (Romans 8:29) "conformed to the image of His Son" with no shades of error or darkness. It is nothing more than a "pipe-dream" to ever suppose that we can, in our fallen condition, ever achieve that state of existence while here on this earth in these corrupt bodies with these corrupt natures present (EVEN IF WE ARE SAVED). That day will only happen when we have made it to Glory and stand in His presence. All things will be essentially equal then with one notable exception....God will still be God...and we will still be beneath Him and subject to Him....but oh...what a blessed state THAT will be!! Even so,come Lord Jesus!

Bro.Greg:saint:

Hello GP,
I think that many times God does use debate and differences to bring us to truth.It might not be the two people debating that get changed, but those who observe from the outside, and see through the heat,and follow after the light that shines through.
18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

In refuting the heresy...it forces anyone concerned for truth to search the scriptures like the bereans did.In this very thread...OR ...is offering good scriptures that would help any who care to read and meditate on them...he is being opposed by others who think man can think apart from the word and come up with better ideas. I side with the scriptures OR offers:wavey:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Reading through this thread...and all the other Cal/non-Cal/this Doctrine/that Doctrine type of debates that go on here on the Baptist Board and probably countless other Internet forums, I have come to several conclusions. #1...most of us are NOT successful debaters since the mark of a successful debater is that he/she actually convinces the other participants that their argument is indeed the truth and "makes" their point (and makes converts). I don't EVER see many "changed" minds in these debates....only marked polarization. #2...Truth is truth...it is absolute....it is black and white...so-called "gray" areas are only diluted truth/error. IF we all believed the "truth" there would be no more Calvinists, Arminians, pre-mills, post-mills,amills or any of the other isms and schisms or denominations (divisions) that currently make up the "body of Christ" in this generation. I submit that if we all truly BELIEVED the real Truth we'd have "made it"....we'd be (Romans 8:29) "conformed to the image of His Son" with no shades of error or darkness. It is nothing more than a "pipe-dream" to ever suppose that we can, in our fallen condition, ever achieve that state of existence while here on this earth in these corrupt bodies with these corrupt natures present (EVEN IF WE ARE SAVED). That day will only happen when we have made it to Glory and stand in His presence. All things will be essentially equal then with one notable exception....God will still be God...and we will still be beneath Him and subject to Him....but oh...what a blessed state THAT will be!! Even so,come Lord Jesus!

Bro.Greg:saint:

Come on now Greg, what would you have us do.....love one another? :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In refuting the heresy...it forces anyone concerned for truth to search the scriptures like the bereans did.In this very thread...OR ...is offering good scriptures that would help any who care to read and meditate on them...he is being opposed by others who think man can think apart from the word and come up with better ideas. I side with the scriptures OR offers:wavey:

Yes & so do I! Call me El Segundo (the second) :thumbs::laugh:

We are here to contend for the Faith!

 

[webdog]

Hello GP,
I think that many times God does use debate and differences to bring us to truth.It might not be the two people debating that get changed, but those who observe from the outside, and see through the heat,and follow after the light that shines through.
18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

In refuting the heresy...it forces anyone concerned for truth to search the scriptures like the bereans did.In this very thread...OR ...is offering good scriptures that would help any who care to read and meditate on them...he is being opposed by others who think man can think apart from the word and come up with better ideas. I side with the scriptures OR offers:wavey:

You crack me up. You are the biggest offender of question begging on this forum I have seen.
Just a few examples "...offering good Scriptures that would help any who care to read and meditate on them". That's now I came to reject this false doctrine.
"...he is being opposed by others who think apart from the word...". Completely hysterical, prideful and dishonest.
"I side with the Scriptures". This is what Mormons, catholics and Jehovah's witnesses say too.

 

[Winman]

You crack me up. You are the biggest offender of question begging on this forum I have seen.
Just a few examples "...offering good Scriptures that would help any who care to read and meditate on them". That's now I came to reject this false doctrine.
"...he is being opposed by others who think apart from the word...". Completely hysterical, prideful and dishonest.
"I side with the Scriptures". This is what Mormons, catholics and Jehovah's witnesses say too.

Yeah, when it comes to Iconoclast, this video sums it up very well;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgBEhnZCJKc

 

[Iconoclast]

You crack me up. You are the biggest offender of question begging on this forum I have seen.
Just a few examples "...offering good Scriptures that would help any who care to read and meditate on them". That's now I came to reject this false doctrine.
"...he is being opposed by others who think apart from the word...". Completely hysterical, prideful and dishonest.
"I side with the Scriptures". This is what Mormons, catholics and Jehovah's witnesses say too.

Sure you will say that webdog...because you are on the other side of the equation.You claim the scriptures led you to where ever you are now, and yet if someone asked me what does webdog believe scripturally, i could not answer them ,because i can barely remember the last time you used a verse on anything.....
I can however remember your list of debate fallacies mentioned..

question begging, non sequiter, red herring, etc....these little one line quips which you over over and over.....but no real substance.
Try making a scriptural case.....one or two verses would help:wavey::thumbs: Or offered many verses....in context....you, Benjamin, skan....not so much.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yeah, when it comes to Iconoclast, this video sums it up very well;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgBEhnZCJKc

:laugh::laugh: Good one Winman:thumbs:

 

[Winman]

:laugh::laugh: Good one Winman:thumbs:

Actually, I don't hate you at all, and I also respect you for standing up for what you believe, even if you are totally messed up in the head. :thumbs:

It's not your fault, (well it really is), you just let others do your thinking for you. If you would quit listening to all those Calvinist preachers on SermonAudio (or whatever site that is) and read your Bible, within a year you would know for a certainty that Calvinism is false.

My only real problem with you is that you are completely obnoxious as Webdog pointed out. Saying things like "I will pray that you come to a knowledge of the truth" just makes you sound like a total jerk. Thus, the Frank Burns video.

If you ever truly get me mad, I will show your truck on BB.

 

[Iconoclast]

Actually, I don't hate you at all, and I also respect you for standing up for what you believe, even if you are totally messed up in the head. :thumbs:

It's not your fault, (well it really is), you just let others do your thinking for you. If you would quit listening to all those Calvinist preachers on SermonAudio (or whatever site that is) and read your Bible, within a year you would know for a certainty that Calvinism is false.

My only real problem with you is that you are completely obnoxious as Webdog pointed out. Saying things like "I will pray that you come to a knowledge of the truth" just makes you sound like a total jerk. Thus, the Frank Burns video.

If you ever truly get me mad, I will show your truck on BB.

Winman,
I am delivering up in Meridan on thurs....are you close to there?
I will fill up a flash drive full of sermonaudio sermons for your enjoyment....

 

[Winman]

Winman,
I am delivering up in Meridan on thurs....are you close to there?

Meridan is about 40 miles from me, I have been there many times.

 

[Iconoclast]

Meridan is about 40 miles from me, I have been there many times.

i am delivering Cherry and plumb trees on yale street at Koguts nursery...then head south on 91- to 95...are you near the Pilot[truckstop] on exit 40 on 95...or is that far away?

 

[Winman]

i am delivering Cherry and plumb trees on yale street at Koguts nursery...then head south on 91- to 95...are you near the Pilot[truckstop] on exit 40 on 95...or is that far away?

I am up Rte. 8 near the Mass line.

 

[webdog]

Sure you will say that webdog...because you are on the other side of the equation.You claim the scriptures led you to where ever you are now, and yet if someone asked me what does webdog believe scripturally, i could not answer them ,because i can barely remember the last time you used a verse on anything.....
I can however remember your list of debate fallacies mentioned..

More dishonesty. I don't hide behind what I believe, and you must know enough to know I'm on the "other side of the equation". Your own words condemn you.

question begging, non sequiter, red herring, etc....these little one line quips which you over over and over.....but no real substance.
Try making a scriptural case.....one or two verses would help:wavey::thumbs: Or offered many verses....in context....you, Benjamin, skan....not so much.

You hear them so much due to the fact every other post of yours employs some kind of fallacy. Try honest debate for a change and that would end.