Exeedingly Sad

[OldRegular]

Icon and SaturnNeptune....you guys are making some real progress here! Let's all bow for a word ofraying::1_grouphug:

Bro.Greg:saint:

I will give that a hearty Amen and perhaps I should change the name of the thread to Exceedingly Joyful!:godisgood: Or as a former truck driver and then pastor from South Georgia would say: "Ain't GOD Good"!

 

[Iconoclast]

Here you go Icon, watch these two preachers. One is Reformed, Paul Washer, and the other is the pastor of a non-Cal, semi-Pelagian, Arminian and whatever else you want to call it Baptist church, and tell me which preacher would help this poor girl who is doubting her salvation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=devfseWA9Lw

Night and day.

Winman,
I was just able to listen to the youtube video.If it was my relative ,I would go with Paul Washer hands down, In fact i would shield them from this other guy.
The reason being....this other man is speaking externally,and PW is seeking to speak to her heart and conscience. The fundemntalist seems more concerned in mentioning KJVO ,,,than the girls heart.

Find more if you want to.:type:

Paul Washer can preach a hard message, but I believe it is crucial in the day we live,Scripture speaks of some who are saved as by fire....I have only heard him about a dozen times.....but I have not heard him go off the rails.

 

[Iconoclast]

I will give that a hearty Amen and perhaps I should change the name of the thread to Exceedingly Joyful!:godisgood: Or as a former truck driver and then pastor from South Georgia would say: "Ain't GOD Good"!

He is indeed Good. I do prefer to post positive,ask and answer questions with scripture when people want answers, or can provide biblical answers.
Not enough of that goes on in here.

 

[Winman]

Winman,
I was just able to listen to the youtube video.If it was my relative ,I would go with Paul Washer hands down, In fact i would shield them from this other guy.
The reason being....this other man is speaking externally,and PW is seeking to speak to her heart and conscience. The fundemntalist seems more concerned in mentioning KJVO ,,,than the girls heart.

Find more if you want to.:type:

Paul Washer can preach a hard message, but I believe it is crucial in the day we live,Scripture speaks of some who are saved as by fire....I have only heard him about a dozen times.....but I have not heard him go off the rails.

There is no need to watch more if you cannot discern the difference. That girl will be back to Paul Washer in six months terrified and crying again, doubting her savation once again, because he did not give her a proper answer from scripture, but is teaching her to rely on an experience.

The fellow from Ft. Lauderdale would teach her to have true assurance from the word of God, not her feelings.

If you cannot discern this, you need to spend some time listening to non-Cal preaching.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is no need to watch more if you cannot discern the difference. That girl will be back to Paul Washer in six months terrified and crying again, doubting her savation once again, because he did not give her a proper answer from scripture, but is teaching her to rely on an experience.

The fellow from Ft. Lauderdale would teach her to have true assurance from the word of God, not her feelings.

If you cannot discern this, you need to spend some time listening to non-Cal preaching.

God forbid!:laugh:

 

[Old Union Brother]

There is no need to watch more if you cannot discern the difference. That girl will be back to Paul Washer in six months terrified and crying again, doubting her savation once again, because he did not give her a proper answer from scripture, but is teaching her to rely on an experience.
The fellow from Ft. Lauderdale would teach her to have true assurance from the word of God, not her feelings.

If you cannot discern this, you need to spend some time listening to non-Cal preaching.

Teaching and preaching an experience is scriptural

I have never listened to Paul Washer but if he preaches an experience of Grace I will give him an amen! and it is backed by scripture. If I relied on my on understanding it is fallible, I will rely on the infallibility of God and his word. I have leaned on my experience for 32 years. So yes an experience of Grace is necessary and the scriptures back it up.

In the Old Testament Laban recognized that God had blessed him by experience:

(Gen 30:27) And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake.

The preacher in Ecclesiastes speaks of having a great experience:
(Ecc 1:16) I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.

And Paul writes in Romans of having glory in the tribulations leading to patience, experience and hope. This hope makes us not ashamed:
(Rom 5:1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

(Rom 5:2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

(Rom 5:3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

(Rom 5:4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

(Rom 5:5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

So yes I base my salvation on an experience supported by the scriptures.

 

[saturneptune]

He is indeed Good. I do prefer to post positive,ask and answer questions with scripture when people want answers, or can provide biblical answers.
Not enough of that goes on in here.

As far as I am concerned, the matter never happened. (four times) Icon is a brother in Christ and very learned in Scripture, in some areas, much better than I will ever be.

 

[OldRegular]

There is no need to watch more if you cannot discern the difference. That girl will be back to Paul Washer in six months terrified and crying again, doubting her savation once again, because he did not give her a proper answer from scripture, but is teaching her to rely on an experience.

The fellow from Ft. Lauderdale would teach her to have true assurance from the word of God, not her feelings.

If you cannot discern this, you need to spend some time listening to non-Cal preaching.

I listened to part of the video and none of it made sense to me!

 

[Winman]

I listened to part of the video and none of it made sense to me!

That really does not surprise me at all.

Paul Washer did not teach that girl how to know she is saved from scripture, he told her to keep crying to God. Kind of a laugh that a famous Calvinist preacher would say this when Calvinists constantly criticize free will folks who say a "sinner's prayer".

When the girl cried herself to sleep, but woke up and thought she heard God speak to her, Washer accepted this as proof of her salvation. That is an experience.

The non-Cal preacher taught scripture, that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. He also pointed out scripture in 1 John 5:14-15 that says if we pray anything according to God's will, we know we have our petitions. He pointed out that it is God's will that all men be saved.

If that girl would listen to the non-Cal preacher, she could have TRUE faith founded on the word of God and complete assurance.

But as it is, she is depending on an experience. Give her six months and she will be terrified and crying again, not sure if she is saved or not.

If you Calvinists think Washer was good preaching, you have no idea what you are missing. I have heard Pentacostals that preach better than that. Actually, Washer sounded like a Pentacostal, preaching assurance through EXPERIENCE.

 

[OldRegular]

That really does not surprise me at all.

Paul Washer did not teach that girl how to know she is saved from scripture, he told her to keep crying to God. Kind of a laugh that a famous Calvinist preacher would say this when Calvinists constantly criticize free will folks who say a "sinner's prayer".

When the girl cried herself to sleep, but woke up and thought she heard God speak to her, Washer accepted this as proof of her salvation. That is an experience.

The non-Cal preacher taught scripture, that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. He also pointed out scripture in 1 John 5:14-15 that says if we pray anything according to God's will, we know we have our petitions. He pointed out that it is God's will that all men be saved.

If that girl would listen to the non-Cal preacher, she could have TRUE faith founded on the word of God and complete assurance.

But as it is, she is depending on an experience. Give her six months and she will be terrified and crying again, not sure if she is saved or not.

If you Calvinists think Washer was good preaching, you have no idea what you are missing. I have heard Pentacostals that preach better than that. Actually, Washer sounded like a Pentacostal, preaching assurance through EXPERIENCE.

You made at least two mistakes Winman:

1. I am not a Calvinist!

2. I have never heard of Washer so I cannot comment on his preaching!

 

[Iconoclast]

As far as I am concerned, the matter never happened. (four times) Icon is a brother in Christ and very learned in Scripture, in some areas, much better than I will ever be.

SN,

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

I am sure God has equipped every believer on BB to perform each of the good works he has ordained for them to accomplish.I am sure as you think back you can be thankful that God has opened sections of scripture to you,and in short order you were able to use them to minister to a soul in need.We get confused sometimes,but God is always on time and building His church.

 

[Herald]

SN & Icon....very encouraging!

 

[saturneptune]

SN,

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

I am sure God has equipped every believer on BB to perform each of the good works he has ordained for them to accomplish.I am sure as you think back you can be thankful that God has opened sections of scripture to you,and in short order you were able to use them to minister to a soul in need.We get confused sometimes,but God is always on time and building His church.

One thing that has impressed me about your posts is the ability to think of Scripture for any given situation. That in itself is a gift. That is something that I can only do from time to time.

We were studying Titus Chapter 2 tonight, and verse 13 makes it very clear that Jesus Christ is God. I had read it before but never noticed that. One thing that amazes me is rereading a verse and learning new things each time.

Yes, it is true, we all have a mixture of gifts given to us by God to carry out His work. I do believe one of yours is a recall of Scripture to a given situation, and using God's Word to impart truth that folks need to hear from time to time.

 

[thomas15]

As far as your opinion on Icon, it is unfortunate that you two do not see eye to eye. I have spoken with Icon, and I am convinced that he has a genuine love for God and of God's truth and glory. Perhaps it is his zeal for God's truth, and glory, that comes off poorly to you in this venue? If you recall, you and I got off to a rather shaky start at first, but over came that (Praise God!). I pray God grants the same outcome to Icon and you. In the meantime the only remedy I can think of is not to interact with each other for the time being.

SNs assessmet of the subject is right on target. The subject gets extra credit, lots of extra credit from the 5 pointers simply because he is in their camp. If the subject were not a 5 pointer, he would have long ago been sent packing for being everything SN say's he is.

We all know that the subject is a nice guy. We all are nice guys. We all love the Lord. Some though are quite annoying in their presentation and lack of original thinking.

Maybe you find me annoying. Fair enough. But while being annoying is possible, it is rare that I post anything on this forum that is not original to me. The subject cannot make that claim.

 

[Iconoclast]

SNs assessmet of the subject is right on target. The subject gets extra credit, lots of extra credit from the 5 pointers simply because he is in their camp. If the subject were not a 5 pointer, he would have long ago been sent packing for being everything SN say's he is.

We all know that the subject is a nice guy. We all are nice guys. We all love the Lord. Some though are quite annoying in their presentation and lack of original thinking.

Maybe you find me annoying. Fair enough. But while being annoying is possible, it is rare that I post anything on this forum that is not original to me. The subject cannot make that claim.

Hello Thomas15,
The subject has no desire to be original.The subject desires to think God's thoughts after Him.The subject knows he is limited and defective and yet,the subject knows this to be true:
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

:wavey::thumbs: The subject presents truth gleaned from gifted teachers who far exceed the best thoughts he has on his best day.:thumbs:

 

[Herald]

SNs assessmet of the subject is right on target. The subject gets extra credit, lots of extra credit from the 5 pointers simply because he is in their camp. If the subject were not a 5 pointer, he would have long ago been sent packing for being everything SN say's he is.

We all know that the subject is a nice guy. We all are nice guys. We all love the Lord. Some though are quite annoying in their presentation and lack of original thinking.

Maybe you find me annoying. Fair enough. But while being annoying is possible, it is rare that I post anything on this forum that is not original to me. The subject cannot make that claim.

It is always easier to extend grace to those who are in your camp. That is almost an axiom. But the interesting thing about Icon and SN is that they both believe in the Doctrines of Grace, yet were always at odds. One would hope that they would be at peace with those they are in substantial agreement with.

I am not sure that "we are all nice guys." There are some posters on this board who I am convinced are not "nice guys." I am sure they feel the same way about me. While I did not come into the Baptist Board seeking that type of polarization, I accept it for what it is. The scripture tells me, "If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men" (Romans 12:18). Despite my best efforts (and hopefully their's as well) peace is not possible on this board. So, I just stop interacting with them. I thought that was going to happen between SN and Icon, but to my surprise peace seems to have been established. I am very happy about that.

 

[OldRegular]

Hello Thomas15,
The subject has no desire to be original.The subject desires to think God's thoughts after Him.The subject knows he is limited and defective and yet,the subject knows this to be true:
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

:wavey::thumbs: The subject presents truth gleaned from gifted teachers who far exceed the best thoughts he has on his best day.:thumbs:

I too may be a "subject" because I post a lot of Scripture and routinely some writings of those old Saints with which I am familiar. Generally nothing says it as well as the Word of God but I have found many of the old Saints and some new ones can on occasion aid my understanding.:thumbs:

 

[saturneptune]

One thing that struck me, while getting messages from some of my brothers in Christ, and rereading my posts, was, what right do I have as a created, flawed being, calling names and degrading another Christian, created by the Lord. The fact that I believe in DoG tells me that the Lord has a purpose for this person and work for him to do.

He works hard everyday driving. There is a great need for telling others about Christ on this circuit. Here I was in essence discouraging a brother from doing this work, and degrading him, the exact same thing I was accusing him of doing. Instead of doing that, I should have been encouraging him about telling about Jesus Christ, in a sometimes hostile environment. If one looks at the situation in that Light, it would make anyone ashamed.

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman

Paul Washer did not teach that girl how to know she is saved from scripture, he told her to keep crying to God. Kind of a laugh that a famous Calvinist preacher would say this when Calvinists constantly criticize free will folks who say a "sinner's prayer".

When the girl cried herself to sleep, but woke up and thought she heard God speak to her, Washer accepted this as proof of her salvation. That is an experience.

The non-Cal preacher taught scripture, that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. He also pointed out scripture in 1 John 5:14-15 that says if we pray anything according to God's will, we know we have our petitions. He pointed out that it is God's will that all men be saved.

If that girl would listen to the non-Cal preacher, she could have TRUE faith founded on the word of God and complete assurance.

But as it is, she is depending on an experience. Give her six months and she will be terrified and crying again, not sure if she is saved or not.

If you Calvinists think Washer was good preaching, you have no idea what you are missing. I have heard Pentacostals that preach better than that. Actually, Washer sounded like a Pentacostal, preaching assurance through EXPERIENCE.

[/QUOTE]
Winman,

If you listen to whole sermons by Paul Washer you will here a complete presentation.

I agree that salvation and assurance of salvation must be rooted in scripture.

All biblical preaching teaches that.

The non-Cal preacher taught scripture, that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Mentioning romans 10 without explaining it is not teaching it.

He also pointed out scripture in 1 John 5:14-15 that says if we pray anything according to God's will, we know we have our petitions.

This verse is only true of believers praying in God's will

He pointed out that it is God's will that all men be saved.

It is not God's will that all men be saved or they would be.

No one should offer a false assurance to someone.They need a biblically based assurance.

Old Union Brother posted a very biblically sound post.Assurance of salvation comes and goes,as our obedience to known commands wavers.

That is why the Reformed look to the heart,rather than a shallow formula...repeat this prayer and you are saved.

 

[Iconoclast]

One thing that struck me, while getting messages from some of my brothers in Christ, and rereading my posts, was, what right do I have as a created, flawed being, calling names and degrading another Christian, created by the Lord. The fact that I believe in DoG tells me that the Lord has a purpose for this person and work for him to do.

He works hard everyday driving. There is a great need for telling others about Christ on this circuit. Here I was in essence discouraging a brother from doing this work, and degrading him, the exact same thing I was accusing him of doing. Instead of doing that, I should have been encouraging him about telling about Jesus Christ, in a sometimes hostile environment. If one looks at the situation in that Light, it would make anyone ashamed.

SN,

It is okay.We all get heated in here sometimes.I do not have thin skin and know that there can be friction. I post on the edgy side and can provoke and annoy people...so I know some return mail will be coming.
Even some others in here that clash.....at least they have energy enough to speak there mind instead of floating downstream like a dead fish:laugh:

Overall if we can keep scriptures in mind as we post we will all benefit.I would rather learn and grow ,rather than have a bb mma cage match all the time:laugh: