Faith # 2

[Brightfame52]

Defining terms and expressions with scriptures, rather than through a pre-molded theological lens, the expression give repentance to Israel simply means that God was still giving Israel a chance to repent even after they had crucified Christ.
It's just like: Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

God was still giving a door of repentance to Israel.

I understand how compelling such expressions sound to a Calvinist because their tenor is correlative to the system, but again, the Bible defines and assigns connotations to its own expressions which never jive with the Calvinistic system.

You still dont get it. Both Faith and Repentance are Blessings Christ bestows on people He saves, He's their Saviour !

Its also the righteous and just thing to do because their sins have been put away by His Vicarious Death for them, Gods justice for them has been satisfied !

 

[Brightfame52]

It is my position that without a general redemption no one can know Christ died for him. Now Christ died for the whole world, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 5:19, 2 Corinthians 5:14, Romans 8:34.

Well its obvious you dont believe that Christs death/blood in and of itself saved anyone He died for. You must believe it made it only possible to get saved, right ?

 

[George Antonios]

You still dont get it. Both Faith and Repentance are Blessings Christ bestows on people He saves, He's their Saviour !

Its also the righteous and just thing to do because their sins have been put away by His Vicarious Death for them, Gods justice for them has been satisfied !

I get it, I was a Calvinist for about 3 years. There is an internal logic (that was historically developed) to the system that's undeniable. I'm just saying that that's not what the scriptures are saying when they are left to define themselves. Are there verses in the Bible whose tenor of words correlates with the deterministic system commonly known as Calvinism and which can be used as proof texts? Sure. But that doesn't prove the system, only that the terminology of some verse lends itself to being used to uphold the system.

Giving repentance, as used in the Bible, is simply God giving yet another chance, now in the NT, for the national salvation of Israel after they had crucified their Messiah.
He gives (the offer of) repentance to Israel just as he had opened (the door of) faith to the Gentiles.
It's "Bible speak". And we must respect its own connotations; the terminological overtones in relation to the Calvinist system notwithstanding.

Note that even though Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins yet not all Israel repented. Why? Because the repentance given was only the opportunity of repentance given, and many rejected that opportunity.
Now, I know what you can do here. You can say - "well only the true Israel, which was elected unto salvation from eternity past, repents, so it is all Israel after all". I won't debate that here but please take a moment to see how such an objection is the system appealing to itself to maintain structural integrity in the face of the plain scriptural reasoning. The Calvinist system's counters are an auto-immune response to preserve itself.

 

[37818]

Well its obvious you dont believe that Christ's death/blood in and of itself saved anyone He died for.

No. In order to for anyone to know Christ died for anyone. But for those He saves the redemption sure, John 10:27-28, 1 John 5:9-13.

 

[atpollard]

My question of which Christ of which gospel was made because of the mere claim of regeneration before belief. So what was the gospel that was heard by which he was regenerated before faith?

Now THAT sounds like an honest question and nothing like "Do you still beat your wife?"

 

[1689Dave]

Paul says "one faith".
“One Lord, one faith, one baptism,” Ephesians 4:5 (KJV 1900)

 

[37818]

Paul says "one faith".
“One Lord, one faith, one baptism,” Ephesians 4:5 (KJV 1900)

Jude 1:3.

Now there is also the teaching of baptisms, Hebrews 6:2, Luke 3:16-17.

 

[Brightfame52]

[QUOTE="George Antonios, post: 2709752, member: 15115"]I get it, I was a Calvinist for about 3 years. There is an internal logic (that was historically developed) to the system that's undeniable. I'm just saying that that's not what the scriptures are saying when they are left to define themselves. Are there verses in the Bible whose tenor of words correlates with the deterministic system commonly known as Calvinism and which can be used as proof texts? Sure. But that doesn't prove the system, only that the terminology of some verse lends itself to being used to uphold the system.

Giving repentance, as used in the Bible, is simply God giving yet another chance, now in the NT, for the national salvation of Israel after they had crucified their Messiah.
He gives (the offer of) repentance to Israel just as he had opened (the door of) faith to the Gentiles.
It's "Bible speak". And we must respect its own connotations; the terminological overtones in relation to the Calvinist system notwithstanding.

Note that even though Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins yet not all Israel repented. Why? Because the repentance given was only the opportunity of repentance given, and many rejected that opportunity.
Now, I know what you can do here. You can say - "well only the true Israel, which was elected unto salvation from eternity past, repents, so it is all Israel after all". I won't debate that here but please take a moment to see how such an objection is the system appealing to itself to maintain structural integrity in the face of the plain scriptural reasoning. The Calvinist system's counters are an auto-immune response to preserve itself.[/QUOTE]

Doesnt seem like it !

 

[Brightfame52]

No. In order to for anyone to know Christ died for anyone. But for those He saves the redemption sure, John 10:27-28, 1 John 5:9-13.

Thats a shame friend !

 

[37818]

Thats a shame friend !

So you think.

Either Christ died for all or He only died for some. If only for some. Then how, and by what determines He died for you? How would one know? Belief does not cause a thing to be true. Mere belief is subjective. If Christ died for all then it would be objective.

 

[George Antonios]

Paul says "one faith".
“One Lord, one faith, one baptism,” Ephesians 4:5 (KJV 1900)

For the church age concerning saving faith.
It's also Paul that says that in the New Testament is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith. That's 2. Old Testament faith VS New Testament faith.
He also says one baptism but then speaks of baptisms in the plural in Hebrews 6:2.

2Timothy 2:15.

 

[George Antonios]

[QUOTE="George Antonios, post: 2709752, member: 15115"]I get it, I was a Calvinist for about 3 years. There is an internal logic (that was historically developed) to the system that's undeniable. I'm just saying that that's not what the scriptures are saying when they are left to define themselves. Are there verses in the Bible whose tenor of words correlates with the deterministic system commonly known as Calvinism and which can be used as proof texts? Sure. But that doesn't prove the system, only that the terminology of some verse lends itself to being used to uphold the system.

Giving repentance, as used in the Bible, is simply God giving yet another chance, now in the NT, for the national salvation of Israel after they had crucified their Messiah.
He gives (the offer of) repentance to Israel just as he had opened (the door of) faith to the Gentiles.
It's "Bible speak". And we must respect its own connotations; the terminological overtones in relation to the Calvinist system notwithstanding.

Note that even though Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins yet not all Israel repented. Why? Because the repentance given was only the opportunity of repentance given, and many rejected that opportunity.
Now, I know what you can do here. You can say - "well only the true Israel, which was elected unto salvation from eternity past, repents, so it is all Israel after all". I won't debate that here but please take a moment to see how such an objection is the system appealing to itself to maintain structural integrity in the face of the plain scriptural reasoning. The Calvinist system's counters are an auto-immune response to preserve itself.

Doesnt seem like it ![/QUOTE]

Ok.

 

[1689Dave]

Jude 1:3.

Now there is also the teaching of baptisms, Hebrews 6:2, Luke 3:16-17.

Are you denying Pauls's claim of one faith? You confuse depraved human mental consent with faith and they are totally different. Do you actually think any part of the depraved flesh can save you?

 

[37818]

Are you denying Pauls's claim of one faith? You confuse depraved human mental consent with faith and they are totally different. Do you actually think any part of the depraved flesh can save you?

I am sorry if you are confused. The "one faith" of Ephesians 4:5 is "the faith" of Jude 1:3.

 

[AustinC]

So you think.

Either Christ died for all or He only died for some. If only for some. Then how, and by what determines He died for you? How would one know? Belief does not cause a thing to be true. Mere belief is subjective. If Christ died for all then it would be objective.

The Bible answers this for you. It's been shared with you. Yet, you reject the passages shared and keep running back to the Law as your means of salvation.

If Christ died for all, then all would be saved. Indeed it would be universally, objectively true to say that all humans are saved.

If Christ died for his elect, it would still be objectively true that the elect are saved. It would not be subjective, as you imagine it to be.

 

[1689Dave]

I am sorry if you are confused. The "one faith" of Ephesians 4:5 is "the faith" of Jude 1:3.

One faith is only confusing for those who try to make it include trusting in the arm of the flesh. That is, trusting in the totally depraved human will as the means of salvation.

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith and Hope are of the same Essence !

That Faith and Hope are of the same Essence or Substance, hope being born out of Faith, the Expectation of what Faith Reveals and causes Trust, well this is seen here 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Now notice how this purpose [of faith and hope in God] follows the fact of God's raising Christ from the dead [ His Resurrection See Vs 3] God gave Him Glory, so that they [to whom Peter was writing] would have Faith and Hope in God. This is the same referred to earlier in Vs 3 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,34

Being begotten again unto a Lively Hope by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, so a Believers Faith and Hope is directly connected to and resultive of Christ's Resurrection from the Dead and His Glory.

Paul said in Eph 1:12

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

In other words, its to the Praise of Christ's Glory whenever one Trust's in Him for Salvation !

 

[Brightfame52]

So you think.

Either Christ died for all or He only died for some. If only for some. Then how, and by what determines He died for you? How would one know? Belief does not cause a thing to be true. Mere belief is subjective. If Christ died for all then it would be objective.

Yes I think and know !

 

[37818]

One faith is only confusing for those who try to make it include trusting in the arm of the flesh. That is, trusting in the totally depraved human will as the means of salvation.

There is the one faith, Ephesians 4:5, Jude 1:3. And there is faith in general Romans 10:17-18. There is the gift of faith, 1 Coriinthians 12:9 and the faith which is part of the fruit of the Spirit, Galatians 5:22.

Now without God's intervention, Romans 3:11, the faith God requires in Him, Hebrews 11:6, is not going to happen in spite of God's revelation given by His creation, Psalms 19:1-4.

 

[37818]

Yes I think and know !

If only the particular redemption is true, how do you or anyone know they are redeemed?