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Faith # 2

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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Faith is Spiritual !

Faith is Spiritual , and its living [as in a lively hope 1 Pet 1:3] for it is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen ! This definition in and of itself confirms that the Natural Man cannot have Faith, because as so, we walk by sight 2 Cor 5:7

(For we walk by faith, not by sight )

Faith is the evidence of the Spiritual Life and without Spiritual Life there can be no Living Faith. The Blessed Saviour said once Jn 5:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus is not saying if one believes they will get Eternal Life, no but quite the opposite, rather He s saying, the one believing, already has Everlasting Life, for ones believing gives Evidence of having Everlasting Life ! For Faith or the act of Believing does not produce Life, but Rather Life produces Faith.

There is no Spiritual Persuasion to one who is yet spiritually dead and alienated from the Life of God, and consequently have no life in them Jn 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Eating and Drinking are metaphorically symbolizing Believing on Christ, appropriating Him, acts of life, and ones not doing that give evidence of having no life [Spiritual] in them ! Activity springs from life !

Jesus is not speaking of natural and physical life, for of course they had that !
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Ephesian 2:8?
Ephesians 2:7-8, ". . . That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; . . ."
The problem is, you say the exact opposite. You say human faith (arm of the flesh) warrants grace.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Ephesian 2:8?
Ephesians 2:7-8, ". . . That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; . . ."
And Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
The problem is, you say the exact opposite. You say human faith (arm of the flesh) warrants grace.
No. You are the one saying that. I have never said man warrants grace in any way. Grace is unmerited or it would not be grace. Your Calvinism is irrational. Faith without reason.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
No. You are the one saying that. I have never said man warrants grace in any way. Grace is unmerited or it would not be grace. Your Calvinism is irrational. Faith without reason.
What if you do not choose to believe? Does God save you anyway and make you into a believer? (What the bible teaches).
 

37818

Well-Known Member
What if you do not choose to believe? Does God save you anyway and make you into a believer? (What the bible teaches).
Saying that, does not make the word of God teach what it does not teach. You have provided nothing from the word of God that we agree on and proves your view. Nowhere in the word of God teaches salvation precedes faith. God given repentance precedes faith. 2 Timothy 2:25, ". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." To give a person a rational faith.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Saying that, does not make the word of God teach what it does not teach. You have provided nothing from the word of God that we agree on and proves your view. Nowhere in the word of God teaches salvation precedes faith. God given repentance precedes faith. 2 Timothy 2:25, ". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." To give a person a rational faith.
Human faith cannot discern the true Christ. So you end up trusting in yourself for salvation. This is trusting in the arm of the flesh which God hates and condemns.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Saying that, does not make the word of God teach what it does not teach. You have provided nothing from the word of God that we agree on and proves your view. Nowhere in the word of God teaches salvation precedes faith. God given repentance precedes faith. 2 Timothy 2:25, ". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." To give a person a rational faith.
God gives Faith along with repentance, faith acknowledges the truth 2 Tim 2:25!
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Human faith cannot discern the true Christ. So you end up trusting in yourself for salvation. This is trusting in the arm of the flesh which God hates and condemns.
Then you deny 2 Timothy 2:25, ". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." And you are beyond reasoning from the word of God.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Then you deny 2 Timothy 2:25, ". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." And you are beyond reasoning from the word of God.
You cannot know the truth without the new birth. You are painting yourself into a no-win situation.
 
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