Faith is not a choice

[The Biblicist]

Faith itself is not a choice

I was just about to say this. Thank you! Faith is not a choice, faith is not merely an inward persuasion either. Faith is the mixture of God's Word of promise within the heart so that it is the CONDITION OF THE HEART toward God.

"not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" (Heb. 4:2) "for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness" (Rom. 10:8).

Faith is what God originates with God's word of command (Rom. 10:17 "rhema" or as Paul says:

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. - 2 Cor. 4:6

It is the creative product of the gospel coming "IN POWER and IN THE SPIRIT and IN MUCH ASSURANCE" by God's will (James 1:18) that effectually calls us out of darkness and translates us into light.

Faith is produced by the creative power of God through the preaching of the gospel which results in choosing to come to Christ but our choice is not the cause of faith.

Faith is the gift of God which is spoken into existence by God through the preaching of the gospel when empowered by God as the Creative word of God - 2 Cor. 4:6

This is the workmanship of God whereby we are CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS (Eph. 2:10) which the creation of a believing heart reverses the condition described in Ephesians 4:18 of the unregenerated state.

 

[percho]

I did not quote The Biblicist for I understand we would not agree. To me faith is the dependence of the Son of God in his Father of fulfilling the promise of God who cannot lie.

God determined his only begotten Son would be the lamb of God and would shed his precious blood. The blood wherein is the life/soul of the flesh. Thus the Son would pour out his soul unto death, having only the promise of God who cannot lie.

The moment of the day in which he cried, " My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me, into thy hands I commend my spirit, and he breathed his last, Faith came. Three days and three nights later the grace that bringeth salvation came and thus faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.

Grace through the faith of Jesus authored eternal salvation. Eph 2:8 + Heb 5:7-9 also Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of the faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Am I an idiot for believing that this is what faith is? Be honest my feelings will be bruised but I will get over it.

 

[The Biblicist]

I did not quote The Biblicist for I understand we would not agree. To me faith is the dependence of the Son of God in his Father of fulfilling the promise of God who cannot lie.

God determined his only begotten Son would be the lamb of God and would shed his precious blood. The blood wherein is the life/soul of the flesh. Thus the Son would pour out his soul unto death, having only the promise of God who cannot lie.

The moment of the day in which he cried, " My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me, into thy hands I commend my spirit, and he breathed his last, Faith came. Three days and three nights later the grace that bringeth salvation came and thus faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.

Grace through the faith of Jesus authored eternal salvation. Eph 2:8 + Heb 5:7-9 also Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of the faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Am I an idiot for believing that this is what faith is? Be honest my feelings will be bruised but I will get over it.

I think you are confusing the object of faith with faith. Christ and his finished work is the object of our faith but it is not faith.

 

[psalms109:31]

Faith is made up first of knowledge a noun that did not come from us. It is what we have not seen. It came from the word of Jesus and concerning Jesus. Then it is made up of trust belief a verb that comes from us. You can't have faith you have no knowledge of and you don't have it if you don't believe or trust in that knowledge. It is the work of God that you believe. God works through the messenger and how beautiful are the feet who bring the Good news. If no one gets the message they can't be saved. Moses would of done nothing without the burning bush. Moses gave plenty of excuses to a burning bush but it was the work of God that he believed.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Oh boy.

The munchkins are out again.:smilewinkgrin:

Trying to convince the rest of us to join in with theire *fairytale*... doctrine.


On and on and on it goes... :tonofbricks:

 

[DHK]

Moses would of done nothing without the burning bush. Moses gave plenty of excuses to a burning bush but it was the work of God that he believed.

Are you sure about that?

Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

 

[percho]

I think you are confusing the object of faith with faith. Christ and his finished work is the object of our faith but it is not faith.

Please show me where I misunderstand the following.

that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith. Gal 3:14 YLT

The promise of the Spirit is received because of the faith.

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7 KJV

This was told the disciples on the night before the crucifixion the same night Jesus had sweat drops of blood in the garden.

If I am not obedient unto death even the death of the cross the Comforter/Holy Spirit will not come unto you.

In the garden. Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Luke 22:42,44 And then as stated in Matthew 26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take [your] rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Is this in Hebrews 5:7,8 KJV describing that moment in the garden? Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; Did the Son of God actually have to learn obedience? Is the following the same obedience? Phil. 2:8 KJV
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Would you agree based on the above that the following is also speaking of Jesus? For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, (see Matt. 26:45) lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, (see Luke 22:44) striving against sin. Hebrews 12:3,4 KJV

Was it not his going away in death by which he became the author and finisher of the faith verse 2 of Hebrews 12?

Would it be fair to the word of God to call what Jesus went through, "obedience of faith"? Both words being nouns in both places this phrase is used?

It is because of the obedience of faith the blessings of Abraham are carried to the nations (Gentiles), paraphrase of Rom. 1:5
Is it because of the obedience of faith of Jesus that the Gentiles (nations) are fellow heirs, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began? Romans 16:25,26

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Eph. 3:6 KJV

 

[Luke2427]

Actually you do choose to have faith because you choose to listen to that information. You are getting closer here Luke.

No, what you are choosing when you choose to listen to the information is... to listen to the information.

Once you have heard the information you are either persuaded by it or not. The actual FAITH part is not a choice.

I grant you that listening is a choice- SOMETIMES, and that may be rarely. Providence hems you in, wedges you into a corner, often times when you cannot BUT listen.

Regardless, saying that choosing to listen is the same as choosing to believe is like saying choosing to run on a street is choosing to get hit by the car you did not know would hit you.

The choice to do one does not equate the choice to do the other.

Oh I wouldn't be so bold as to say that. If something better than Gravity came along to convince me other wise.

Yes, to CONVINCE you.

You would be passive in that exchange as well. If something better came along, as you say, then it would either convince you or it wouldn't.

It would be doing the acting and you would be doing the receiving. The impetus for your belief is on the object seeking to convince you- not on you.

You would either find the information compelling or you would not find it compelling. If you found it compelling you would have no choice but to believe it.

 

[Luke2427]

Another example of Cals not knowing what non cals actually believe.

How so?

Oh, I know!! Because YOU said it. When it comes from your mind it MUST be the way it is and people should just believe it without you even making a case for it... because you are a.... PREACHER!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[Luke2427]

Faith itself is not a choice, but we make a choice to believe.

Let's say you come to a frail looking wooden bridge over a swift river you desire to cross. You sincerely desire to cross the bridge, but it is certain if the bridge collapses you will be swept to your death in the raging river below.

There is an old man standing at the foot of the bridge. You ask the man if the bridge is safe. He assures you that the bridge is completely safe and that many persons much bigger and heavier than you have safely crossed many times, even just an hour ago.

The man seems very sincere and very convincing, yet the bridge appears very frail and not safe at all.

What do you do? You weigh the evidence, the bridge does not look safe, but the man seems very sincere and honest, and his argument was very compelling.

You decide to take a chance and cross the bridge. This is a decision, it is a decision to believe or trust the man and the bridge.

The Greek word ofr faith is "pisteuo" which means "to be fully persuaded."

To take a chance is the dead level OPPOSITE of fully persuaded.

You don't even know what saving faith IS!!!!!!!!!


My HEAVENS!! This is FOUNDATIONAL stuff!!! BABY stuff. If you don't even have what FAITH is....

 

[Luke2427]

I was just about to say this. Thank you! Faith is not a choice, faith is not merely an inward persuasion either. Faith is the mixture of God's Word of promise within the heart so that it is the CONDITION OF THE HEART toward God.

"not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" (Heb. 4:2) "for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness" (Rom. 10:8).

Faith is what God originates with God's word of command (Rom. 10:17 "rhema" or as Paul says:

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. - 2 Cor. 4:6

It is the creative product of the gospel coming "IN POWER and IN THE SPIRIT and IN MUCH ASSURANCE" by God's will (James 1:18) that effectually calls us out of darkness and translates us into light.

Faith is produced by the creative power of God through the preaching of the gospel which results in choosing to come to Christ but our choice is not the cause of faith.

Faith is the gift of God which is spoken into existence by God through the preaching of the gospel when empowered by God as the Creative word of God - 2 Cor. 4:6

This is the workmanship of God whereby we are CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS (Eph. 2:10) which the creation of a believing heart reverses the condition described in Ephesians 4:18 of the unregenerated state.

Read the passages you cite above again and pay attention to the use of the words "light" and "knowledge."

When one comes to know these things, he believes.

God uses his word and nature (Romans 1, Psalm 19, etc...) to persuade people that he is God, that Christ is his Son, etc...

When they are persuaded they believe... because to BELIEVE is to be "fully persuaded."

Choice has nothing to do with it. God either persuades them through Providence and Scripture, or God does not.

If God persuades them through these means (the Holy Spirit being the One who draws their attention to these things) then they believe and are saved.

If God does NOT do this, then they remain in their sins.

They do not choose to be persuaded that Christ is Lord any more than they CHOSE to believe in the existence of matter.

We believe in matter because we HAVE BEEN (passive) convinced that it exists.

We did not choose to believe in it.

 

[Luke2427]

Oh boy.

The munchkins are out again.:smilewinkgrin:

Trying to convince the rest of us to join in with theire *fairytale*... doctrine.


On and on and on it goes... :tonofbricks:

Of what use is this post?

What is the design of it?

What is it that you are wanting to accomplish by posting it?

 

[psalms109:31]

Are you sure about that?

Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

I am not talking about his faith of knowing who he was I am talking about him going back to Egypt would not of happened without the burning bush message. He had no faith to go back to Egypt until the burning bush incident. Moses gave plenty of excuses not to go, but God worked with him and he believed and went. I am sorry if I made you think I believed Moses had no faith at all. That was not at all what I was trying to convey. God through a messenger works with a sinner to get them to believe in a faith that comes from the word of Jesus and the words concerning Jesus. Would they believe without a messenger on their own in the faith that comes from Him?

 

[Winman]

The Greek word ofr faith is "pisteuo" which means "to be fully persuaded."

To take a chance is the dead level OPPOSITE of fully persuaded.

You don't even know what saving faith IS!!!!!!!!!


My HEAVENS!! This is FOUNDATIONAL stuff!!! BABY stuff. If you don't even have what FAITH is....

I would say it is you that does not know what faith is. Faith is a risk, it is taking a chance.

Faith would be like loaning a total stranger your car on the promise they would return it. You are taking a chance, a risk, believing their promise.

Faith would be letting a surgeon open up your brain and operate on you. You are taking a tremendous risk that could cost your very life, but this is faith, you are believing the doctor, his schooling, reputation and skills, etc...

Faith is trusting a parachute and jumping out of a plane at three thousand feet. You are placing your very life at risk, you are taking a chance.

Faith can be strong or weak. One man may scream in fear when he leaps out of the airplane with a parachute, while another may eagerly leap out.

Who of these men has placed greater faith in the parachute? Neither, both are fully trusting the parachute with their life.

Jesus himself had faith, he allowed himself to die on the cross, fully believing that his Father would raise him from the dead.

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Luke posted...

[What use is this post?

To get my point across.

What is the design of it?

To get my point across.

What is it that you are wanting to accomplish by posting it?

To get my point across.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke posted...



To get my point across.



To get my point across.



To get my point across.

Perhaps, if your point was to be snotty, shallow and inflammatory.

Decent people offer substantive critiques or contributions.

All you do here is insult and inflame.

 

[webdog]

How so?

Oh, I know!! Because YOU said it. When it comes from your mind it MUST be the way it is and people should just believe it without you even making a case for it... because you are a.... PREACHER!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

No, he doesn't comically believe faith = choice. You said we believe we are saved by grace through choice. That is the dumbest thing I think I've heard you say yet.

Your very snide, inflammatory accusation can be turned right back on you.

"Decent people offer substantive critiques or contributions.

All you do here is insult and inflame."

 

[The Biblicist]

I would say it is you that does not know what faith is. Faith is a risk, it is taking a chance.

Faith would be like loaning a total stranger your car on the promise they would return it. You are taking a chance, a risk, believing their promise.

You are defining the SECULAR meaning of faith as a leap in the dark rather than Biblical faith which is founded upon the sure promises of God's Word. Bibical faith is a certainty/assurance/confidence due to the foundation it rests upon (Heb. 11:1) that gives a confident expectation ("hope").

 

[The Biblicist]

Read the passages you cite above again and pay attention to the use of the words "light" and "knowledge."

When one comes to know these things, he believes.

God uses his word and nature (Romans 1, Psalm 19, etc...) to persuade people that he is God, that Christ is his Son, etc...

When they are persuaded they believe... because to BELIEVE is to be "fully persuaded."

Choice has nothing to do with it. God either persuades them through Providence and Scripture, or God does not.

If God persuades them through these means (the Holy Spirit being the One who draws their attention to these things) then they believe and are saved.

If God does NOT do this, then they remain in their sins.

They do not choose to be persuaded that Christ is Lord any more than they CHOSE to believe in the existence of matter.

We believe in matter because we HAVE BEEN (passive) convinced that it exists.

We did not choose to believe in it.

Luke take a look at my new thead entitled "John 6:45 'All' = "every man' = come to me" and read the OP and see what you think. I think we may be saying the same thing.

 

[Iconoclast]

Originally Posted by Alive in Christ View Post
Oh boy.

The munchkins are out again.

Trying to convince the rest of us to join in with theire *fairytale*... doctrine.

On and on and on it goes...
Of what use is this post?

What is the design of it?

What is it that you are wanting to accomplish by posting it?
__________________[/QUOTE]

This post is ......a cry for help.....AIC wants to participate in the discussions,but has not equipped himself for the task. So he posts once in awhile....showing he was "deep in thought"......posting about munchkins,and fairytales....lol....VERY DEEP.
AIC.....hope you did not hurt yourself thinking this post through!