Drew said,
3) Man must die for unbelief/lack of faith. “All deeds will be judged but the person who does the deeds is judged only by his Faith in God. You have it? YOU LIVE. You don't have it, YOU DIE!” Here’s where your logic seems to come to double jeopardy, as man must die for unbelief while his sins have already been paid for. Atoned is reconciled, so was your use of the word “Atoned” a poor choice of words? Would you like to rephrase this?
NO I would not like to rephrase. Sin has been atoned by Jesus, therefore Sin is no longer a factor in man's Salvation! Salvation is through FAITH ALONE. Salvation was enabled by Jesus atoning for ALL SIN in ALL TIMES. If the penalty had not been Paid by Jesus, NO MAN could received Eternal life, because he still faces the penalty for sin, which is...DEATH!
You cannot have everlasting life if you are under the death penalty! The penalty has been removed from mankind, therefore, by believing in God the son, you pass from death into life. No man is under the death penalty for sin. But many are under the death penalty because they refuse to believe in God the Son.
That leaves FAITH! God the Son says "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish (face death) but have everlasting life (the Free gift of God to those who believe. So if you have faith in God, you live. If you do not have faith in God, you die...but the death of the one who has no faith is not due to sins it is due to lack of faith, which is something you are supposed to possess by hearing the Word of God, and which is something that God looks for in you.
No I do not believe in Universalism! NO I do not believe that All men will "eventually" be saved, scripture does not support such!
Please explain why a man who doesn’t believe dies if ALL of his sin has been atoned for? Revelation 20 14,15
would agree that unbelief is the absence of belief/faith; however, concerning your statement “Unbelief is not sin”:
If unbelief is not sin, why then is unbelief punished by DEATH? Men die and spend eternity in hell because of… SIN.
“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23 NASB)
The scripture you quote deals with Sin. While I agree with the wage for sin being death, the Atonement of Jesus for Sin wiped away that wage, we no longer face the death penalty because of Sin!
Unbelief is the absence of belief which Jesus says is something you must possess to be Saved!
Yes, but who will come to Jesus believing? Sorry, Wes, you just negated scripture, the John 6:37-40 scripture reference that I gave earlier. Instead of putting it all into harmony with your passage you purposely leave John 6:37-40 out favoring John 17:20-22 because it fits your tradition. That’s eisegesis friend.
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:37-40 NASB)
There is NO LACK OF HARMONY between what Jesus says in John 6 and what he says in John 17.
John 17 simply makes it clear who the Father gave "out of the world" to Jesus who is God the Son, and who specifically it is who were "Taught by God", there are no others in scripture of whom "Taught by God" applies except the Apostles. ALL since, have been taught by the teachings of the Apostles.
And by the way, It is your traditional understanding that clouds your thinking!
John 6:36 But, as I have told you, you can see me and still you do not believe.
John 6:37 Everyone whom the Father gives me will come to me; I will certainly not reject anyone who comes to me,
John 6:38 because I have come from heaven, not to do my own will, but to do the will of him who sent me.
John 6:39 Now the will of him who sent me is that I should lose nothing of all that he has given to me, but that I should raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 It is my Father's will that whoever sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and that I should raise that person up on the last day.
John 6:41 Meanwhile the Jews were complaining to each other about him, because he had said, `I am the bread that has come down from heaven.'
John 6:42 They were saying, `Surely this is Jesus son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know. How can he now say, "I have come down from heaven?" '
John 6:43 Jesus said in reply to them, `Stop complaining to each other.
John 6:44 `No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me, and I will raise that person up on the last day.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets: They will all be taught by God; everyone who has listened to the Father, and learnt from him, comes to me.
What is it about this relatively small portion of the discourse in the synagog that you want me to isegete? I am not persuaded by your insistance that this passage justifies the doctrine of election! IT DOES NOT!
"Being drawn" let's look at this. The scene is an upcoming Concert by your favorite performers, but you know nothing about it because you have failed to "hear the word" that contains the details. It is the word that would draw you to attend the concert, but you did not get the message. So you are not drawn by the word, and you miss the concert! But the concert had room for everyone, and all who came were admitted freely but only those who heard the word made preparation and attended. The Father gave us HIS Holy Word by which we are to be drawn to the SON. If you don't open the word you don't get the invitation to attend. The word can be and is given in many different forms, but if you don't act on what you hear....oh well!
