False Gospel

[Earth Wind and Fire]

" I am a fan of Sola Scriptura and I care about "What GOD says in His God-breathed Holy Word." "

If you cared then you could cough up a verse that directly teaches that scripture is the final and only authority.

Folks don't baptize because scripture says so, scripture says so.

1 Corinthians 7

14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.


Colosians 2

11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.


The line could have easily said:

In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands having been buried with him in Baptism.

Whats in the commas is details: that Baptism is the Circumcision of Christ.



Luke 2
21On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he was conceived.


No body whining about a "believer's circumcision".

What if the parents and family were inspired to have a dedication involving pouring water over the head of an infant to symbolize washing clean the child from any inpropriety and as a dedication to the church and Christianity and gave the kid the opportunity to make his/her own decisions as they grew older. My son was dedicated in a Presbyterian Church and is now 27 yo. At this point this is between him and God.

 

[atpollard]

" I am a fan of Sola Scriptura and I care about "What GOD says in His God-breathed Holy Word." "
If you cared then you could cough up a verse that directly teaches that scripture is the final and only authority.

If I knew of one, I would. However that would have been quite a trick for God to inspire a verse that says we are to place a book that will not be fully compiled for another 400 years over the teaching of the people that are writing the letters that will be compiled into that book and the corrupt teachings and writings that have yet to be written by people yet to be born.

And I thought Revelation was confusing ... that would have been a head scratcher for hundreds of years.

Folks don't baptize because scripture says so, scripture says so.
[snip]
No body whining about a "believer's circumcision".

Spare me and try to follow the complaint. First, I actually have no problem with Covenant Theology and I am fully aware of the scriptures supporting it. I do not happen to think that the argument that Water Baptism has replaced Physical Circumcision as the sign for entering into the Covenant is a strong argument based on the scriptural evidence that my Presbyterian brothers have presented, but that is a discussion that I would be delighted to have in another topic (and not this topic).

I was NOT criticizing infant baptism, per se, but rather I was pointing out that a belief system that claims ...

1. Babies are Justified by being baptized (when they are physically incapable of doing good works), and
2. ANYONE who claims Justification is by Grace without Good Works is ANATHEMA (cursed).

... has an innate contradiction in their belief system. One statement or the other is being misrepresented to me because BOTH statements cannot be true. They are mutually contradictory.

 

[utilyan]

This is not what you argued in the past. You claimed a person could reject Jesus Christ and still be saved based on their love of God (whatever that means to them) and love of others. You gave Paul as an example of this. This is the problem with Catholicism, when Catholics get into a conversation about salvation ( "what must I do to be saved" ) they end up all over the place, confusion is the norm among them. The Baptist view is precise, consistent and biblical, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved. What you see in this simple to the point statement is 1) Jesus is Lord 2) Jesus is Christ 3) believe this and you shall be saved. ALL other things a Christian DOES has no merit for salvation. The Christian DOES what the Lord says because they are saved, not to be saved or stay saved.
2Co 11:3
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

"You claimed a person could reject Jesus Christ and still be saved based on their love of God (whatever that means to them) and love of others."

No that is what you want to hear.

Your understanding of "REJECTING JESUS CHRIST" Vastly different from mine.

Paul was saved by intervention, Paul didn't love God or neighbor, he claim to be a blasphemer

"This is the problem with Catholicism, when Catholics get into a conversation about salvation ( "what must I do to be saved" ) they end up all over the place, confusion is the norm among them."

If its our problem why not let us bring it up?

The norm is we trust God enough to not to have trust issues and obsess over salvation. Every post of yours has to do with salvation.

Every conversation with you guys ends with "Do you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?" Didn't you ask the same thing yesterday?

Our priority is Love God and Love Neighbor. Not a survival guide versus God.

We have a Catechism that explains it. Its not a mystery.
Catechism of the Catholic Church

The best debate ammo against Catholic's is right there.^

 

[utilyan]

If I knew of one, I would. However that would have been quite a trick for God to inspire a verse that says we are to place a book that will not be fully compiled for another 400 years over the teaching of the people that are writing the letters that will be compiled into that book and the corrupt teachings and writings that have yet to be written by people yet to be born.

And I thought Revelation was confusing ... that would have been a head scratcher for hundreds of years.


Spare me and try to follow the complaint. First, I actually have no problem with Covenant Theology and I am fully aware of the scriptures supporting it. I do not happen to think that the argument that Water Baptism has replaced Physical Circumcision as the sign for entering into the Covenant is a strong argument based on the scriptural evidence that my Presbyterian brothers have presented, but that is a discussion that I would be delighted to have in another topic (and not this topic).

I was NOT criticizing infant baptism, per say, but rather I was pointing out that a belief system that claims ...

1. Babies are Justified by being baptized (when they are physically incapable of doing good works), and
2. ANYONE who claims Justification is by Grace without Good Works is ANATHEMA (cursed).

... has an innate contradiction in their belief system. One statement or the other is being misrepresented to me because BOTH statements cannot be true. They are mutually contradictory.

"physically incapable of doing good works"

The ONLY GOOD WORKS is Love God and Love Neighbor.

If you don't need GOOD WORKS to be saved then I'm sure you have no problem finding someone who HATES GOD and is Saved.

 

[steaver]

"You claimed a person could reject Jesus Christ and still be saved based on their love of God (whatever that means to them) and love of others."

No that is what you want to hear.

Well let's test this...I will ask and let you answer....

Can a person reject Jesus Christ and still be saved based on their love of God (whatever that means to them) and love of others?

 

[Yeshua1]

The false Gospel is any view of the Gospel that wants to deny the that the Death of Jesus on behalf of sinners was and is fully sufficent by itself to eternally save and secure lost sinners.
When you add must be water baptized, or in a certain way only, must speak in tongues, nust be a member of a certain church, must adhere to peculair teachings of a founder or a Prophet/Apostle in teh church to be really saved etc... All of that makes up a false and another Gospel.
Examples would by the RCC/Sda/Word of faith , Jesus Only etc!

 

[atpollard]

"physically incapable of doing good works"
The ONLY GOOD WORKS is Love God and Love Neighbor.

• Canon 9 of the Council of Trent states, "If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema."
• Canon 12 of the Council of Trent states, "If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema."

Did the baby "cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification" and "become prepared and disposed by the action of his own will" and was the baby NOT placing "confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake" and NOT trusting "that it is this confidence alone that justifies him"?
If you believe that the justification of the baby was based on any of these things, then how does it feel to be ANATHEMA?

If you don't need GOOD WORKS to be saved then I'm sure you have no problem finding someone who HATES GOD and is Saved.

Non sequitur.

"Love" and "Hate" are not works.

• [Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB] 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

[HOW SAVED] "by grace you have been saved through faith"
[NOT] "not of yourselves"
[IS] "gift of God"
[NOT] "not as a result of works"
[AFTER SAVED] "for good works"

 

[Yeshua1]

• 
  
  
  • Canon 9 of the Council of Trent states, "If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema."
  • Canon 12 of the Council of Trent states, "If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema."

Did the baby "cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification" and "become prepared and disposed by the action of his own will" and was the baby NOT placing "confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake" and NOT trusting "that it is this confidence alone that justifies him"?
If you believe that the justification of the baby was based on any of these things, then how does it feel to be ANATHEMA?


Non sequitur.

"Love" and "Hate" are not works.

• [Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB] 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

[HOW SAVED] "by grace you have been saved through faith"
[NOT] "not of yourselves"
[IS] "gift of God"
[NOT] "not as a result of works"
[AFTER SAVED] "for good works"

Rome were in those quotes offiicially declaring that they rupiated the true Gospel of Jesus, and were now Apostate in their theology!

 

[tyndale1946]

What if the parents and family were inspired to have a dedication involving pouring water over the head of an infant to symbolize washing clean the child from any inpropriety and as a dedication to the church and Christianity and gave the kid the opportunity to make his/her own decisions as they grew older. My son was dedicated in a Presbyterian Church and is now 27 yo. At this point this is between him and God.

I've heard of the practice and seen it in child dedication in churches... Is it up to the church to raise up the child in the Lord or is that teaching reserved for the parents?... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I've heard of the practice and seen it in child dedication in churches... Is it up to the church to raise up the child in the Lord or is that teaching reserved for the parents?... Brother Glen

Both

 

[Wesley Briggman]

My son was dedicated in a Presbyterian Church and is now 27 yo. At this point this is between him and God.

At what point of your son's salvation was it not between him and God? Of course, that question applies to anyone of God's elect.

 

[tyndale1946]

Both

Steve I started and OP on it please feel free to give me your thoughts and you other brethren free to contribute... Brother Glen

 

[Wesley Briggman]

When you add must be water baptized, or in a certain way only, must speak in tongues, nust be a member of a certain church, must adhere to peculair teachings of a founder or a Prophet/Apostle in teh church to be really saved etc... All of that makes up a false and another Gospel.
Examples would by the RCC/Sda/Word of faith , Jesus Only etc!

I agree. RCC doctrine teaches that re-birth (being born-again) is accomplished through water baptism.

GUIDELINES FOR BAPTISM IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH | Annunciation Catholic Parish

A. The Sanctifying Role of the Church (Code of Canon Law, c. 842, 849; Catechism of the Catholic Church 1213, 1263, 1265, 1267-1270)

Through Baptism, God enables us to participate in his life in Jesus Christ and makes us his children. It is through this sacrament that we receive the Holy Spirit and become members of the People of God, of the Body of Christ, which is the Church. Baptism becomes our commitment to grow in this new life and to strive to acquire spiritual maturity. By baptism, God purifies us from sin.

The RCC has provision to baptize in the womb of the mother if the life of the child is in danger, thereby insuring, in case of death, the child will go directly to heaven.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Baptism
In like manner they consider as probably valid the baptism of an infant in its mother's womb, provided the water, by means of an instrument, would actually flow upon the child. Such baptism is, however, later to be repeated conditionally, if the child survives its birth (Lehmkuhl, n. 61).

Just one example of extreme false doctrine adhered to by the RCC.

I recently posted similar/same articles about RCC baptizing in the womb in another thread.

 

[JonShaff]

If you don't need GOOD WORKS to be saved then I'm sure you have no problem finding someone who HATES GOD and is Saved.

Depends on how you want to use the term "hate". Some saved people love hobbies more than God.

 

[Adonia]

There are others on this board more than capable of refuting Rome's errors.

Errors abound everywhere, be they purveyed by Baptists, Lutherans, Mormons, Assemblies of God, you name the denomination and error exists in their particular take on things. Anyone who says otherwise is just kidding themselves. Only Jesus had it all squared away, everyone else is just trying to get it all together

 

[utilyan]

• 
  
  
  • Canon 9 of the Council of Trent states, "If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema."
  • Canon 12 of the Council of Trent states, "If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema."

Did the baby "cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification" and "become prepared and disposed by the action of his own will" and was the baby NOT placing "confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake" and NOT trusting "that it is this confidence alone that justifies him"?
If you believe that the justification of the baby was based on any of these things, then how does it feel to be ANATHEMA?


Non sequitur.

"Love" and "Hate" are not works.

• [Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB] 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

[HOW SAVED] "by grace you have been saved through faith"
[NOT] "not of yourselves"
[IS] "gift of God"
[NOT] "not as a result of works"
[AFTER SAVED] "for good works"

""Love" and "Hate" are not works."

CHALLENGE TO ALL OF YOU. Name one GOOD WORK that is devoid of Love.

Love is the only good work.

This is why FAITH ALONE ie. devoid of Love, which Luther claims is all you need, FAILS.


One of these passage is correct followed by Christians the other is false gospel backed by Satan.
===
Luke 10

25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
===
Luke 10

25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said unto him, Wrong: you are saved by Faith Alone.


===

I will follow Jesus Christ. Do you follow Christ or Satan?


Who hears the words of Christ rejects them and then tries to hide the rejection by looking for loopholes or alternatives to undermine the command?





Matthew 5

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Can you show me this guy? cause I meet him everyday.

 

[utilyan]

Depends on how you want to use the term "hate". Some saved people love hobbies more than God.

I mean devoid with no love of God at all, with a hatred and disgust comparable to Satan. Have you met a saved person who hates God?

 

[Yeshua1]

Errors abound everywhere, be they purveyed by Baptists, Lutherans, Mormons, Assemblies of God, you name the denomination and error exists in their particular take on things. Anyone who says otherwise is just kidding themselves. Only Jesus had it all squared away, everyone else is just trying to get it all together

There are eoors and mistakes, but the problems in churches like Rcc/Sda moves into heresy, a deniel of the true Gospel!

 

[Yeshua1]

""Love" and "Hate" are not works."

CHALLENGE TO ALL OF YOU. Name one GOOD WORK that is devoid of Love.

Love is the only good work.

This is why FAITH ALONE ie. devoid of Love, which Luther claims is all you need, FAILS.


One of these passage is correct followed by Christians the other is false gospel backed by Satan.
===
Luke 10

25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
===
Luke 10

25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said unto him, Wrong: you are saved by Faith Alone.


===

I will follow Jesus Christ. Do you follow Christ or Satan?


Who hears the words of Christ rejects them and then tries to hide the rejection by looking for loopholes or alternatives to undermine the command?





Matthew 5

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Can you show me this guy? cause I meet him everyday.

Jesus and paul and John all stated that all it takes is believing into the name of the Lord Jesus, why doesn't Rome?

 

[atpollard]

CHALLENGE TO ALL OF YOU. Name one GOOD WORK that is devoid of Love.

1. Joseph's brothers selling him into slavery.
2. Satan lying to Eve.
3. The Centurion who nailed Christ to the Cross.

Now you have three. I am tired of your strawmen. Get with the same conversation as everyone else or start your own topic to explore your quest for nonsense.