KenH
Well-Known Member
If Christ died for all mankind, then all mankind will be saved, as God cannot punish for the same sins twice.
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False Religion of Arminianism
- Thread starter KenH
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If Christ died for all mankind, then all mankind will be saved, as God cannot punish for the same sins twice.
37818
Well-Known Member
The general redemption does not teach universalism.
That would be a mistaken and notorious viewpoint, but i do not know any holding to that view that denies Jesus died for sinners, and was raised for their justification!
please provide scripture for this
KenH
Well-Known Member
John 10:5 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. (emphasis mine)
KenH
Well-Known Member
I think that Augustus Toplady's hymn reflects the two verses above very well:
"From whence this fear and unbelief,
If God, my Father, put to grief
His spotless Son for me?
Can He, the righteous Judge of men,
Condemn me for that debt of sin
Which, Lord, was charged to Thee?
Complete atonement Thou hast made,
And to the utmost farthing paid
Whate’er Thy people owed;
How, then, can wrath on me take place,
If sheltered in God’s righteousness,
And sprinkled by Thy blood?
If Thou hast my discharge procured,
And freely in my place endured
The whole of wrath divine;
Payment God will not twice demand,
First at my bleeding Surety’s hand,
And then again at mine.
Turn then, my soul, unto thy rest;
The merits of thy great High Priest
Speak peace and liberty;
Trust in His efficacious blood,
Nor fear thy banishment from God,
Since Jesus died for thee."
- Augustus Toplady
"From whence this fear and unbelief,
If God, my Father, put to grief
His spotless Son for me?
Can He, the righteous Judge of men,
Condemn me for that debt of sin
Which, Lord, was charged to Thee?
Complete atonement Thou hast made,
And to the utmost farthing paid
Whate’er Thy people owed;
How, then, can wrath on me take place,
If sheltered in God’s righteousness,
And sprinkled by Thy blood?
If Thou hast my discharge procured,
And freely in my place endured
The whole of wrath divine;
Payment God will not twice demand,
First at my bleeding Surety’s hand,
And then again at mine.
Turn then, my soul, unto thy rest;
The merits of thy great High Priest
Speak peace and liberty;
Trust in His efficacious blood,
Nor fear thy banishment from God,
Since Jesus died for thee."
- Augustus Toplady
Yes indeed, as ONLY those whom Jesus died for are included among his flock!
nope context is important what else do you got
God ALWAYS has operated on saving his own out among the many, remember the faithful remnant he chose and saved out against when Israel went full on baal worship!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
"These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." ( John 17:1-4 ).
Salvation includes, and cannot be divorced from, the gift ( Romans 6:23 ) of eternal life.
In the above, Jesus Christ only saves and gives eternal life, to exactly as many as His Father has given to Him.
In other places we see that these are the foreknown and predestinated ( Romans 8:29-30 ), vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory ( Romans 9:22-24 ) and they are those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:3-6 ), as well as all those created "in Christ Jesus" and are God's workmanship ( Ephesians 2:1-10 ).
Since His purpose from the foundation of the world was to save and redeem a people unto Himself ( 2 Timothy 1:9, 1 Peter 1:20 ) and that act was directed at those His Father gave to Him ( Isaiah 53:8, Matthew 1:21, John 10:11-15, John 10:26-28 ), then His death, burial and resurrection had a specific purpose and a specific focus.
Romans 5:1-11 describes what believers, God's elect, have received...
and it specifically states who is justified by faith and who was reconciled to God by the death of His Son.
The Lord came to start and finish the work of His Father, and it was finished 2,000 years ago for everyone that would come to Him.
37818
Well-Known Member
How does this disallow the general redemption? And Peter's advice to make sure of one's calling and election? 2 Peter 1:5-10. Note verse nine regarding those who don't. ". . . But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. . . ."
KenH
Well-Known Member
What I have is fine. Why don't you state your position on this issue, if you have one, and try to offer Scriptural support for it?
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KenH
Well-Known Member
Christ died for His sheep. Christ will never, ever lose one of His sheep. Therefore, every person that Christ died for was one of His sheep(as He clearly stated) and every one of His sheep that He died for will never be lost(as He clearly stated).
Now, one can hold to general redemption and be consistent if he also believes that every person will ultimately be saved, either in this age or afterwards, if one goes along with ideas such as Christian Universalism that hell is corrective and not punishment.
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That's interesting. I didn't know we had any Arminians on the Baptist Board.
37818
Well-Known Member
Two things. The general redemption in no way disallows Christ giving His soul for His sheep, where He loses none of them.
The general redemption nowhere teaches universalism.
KenH
Well-Known Member
It does if one is consistent; however, I know it is difficult for us fallen, sinful human beings to be consistent in anything.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say that is true. Catholicism is a false religion but I have no doubt there are Genuine Believers in the Catholic Church.
37818
Well-Known Member
Show me general redemption universalism in the Bible. The general redemption is in the Bible, but not universalism.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Then there cannot be general redemption.
37818
Well-Known Member
But there is the general redemption in the Bible. Particular redemption is a key part of it.
1 John 2:2. 1 Timothy 2:6. Luke 22:20-21. 2 Peter 2:1, Jude 1:4.
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