FBC Dallas and Christmas Wars: Is this Kingdom work?

[Havensdad]

I haven't seen a liberal post on this thread yet.

I prefer "Merry Christmas." Of course, it's not just Kwanzaa and everything, too. We have New Year's Day and Thanksgiving that are part of this time of year. "Happy Holidays" shouldn't offend anyone.

I don't care for a mentality that tries to silence people from wishing a "Merry Christmas." I know what I celebrate and it's significance in my life.

My issue is that, as FBC Dallas increases this kind of controversy and gets groups of Christians involved, they are casting Christians in a very, very negative light.

Let's face it: Christians in this country love to have a negative identity, not in the sense that they look bad, but in the sense that their identity is all about how they are not like others.

Being a Christian should be a very positive identity; i.e., "we ARE" these things.

FBC has very checkered past under the leadership of Criswell, Gregory and this new dude. This just continues their increasingly segmented and mixed witness to the city of Dallas.

Thankfully, they're not the "momma church" they once were in that area.

Christians, according to scripture, are supposed to be "hated." Not sure how that accords with what you are saying above.

I wonder how the fanatical Catholics viewed Martin Luther? Wonder how they viewed all of the protestants? In fact, this is a freedom thing, not just a Christian thing, so I wonder how the Britains viewed the Boston Tea Party? I wonder how the slave owners viewed Lincoln?

People who stand up to tyranny, are always going to be disliked by those in favor of the Tyranny...

 

[matt wade]

To force others to put up trees or say Merry Christmas is wrong and violates the religious freedom of other individuals.

Where has anyone advocated forcing others to do anything?

If you go into a business and they curse you out, will you keep going to that business? You won't? Shocking! Well, by your twisted logic, you would be forcing them watch their language. When we don't apply your twisted logic, we see that you are just exercising your freedom to shop at a place that treats you how you'd like to be treated.

You love to talk about "freedom", yet when conservative Christians exercise their freedom you cry foul. Isn't that a bit hypocritical of you?

 

[Havensdad]

I hope you're feeling better, need me to hold your hair?

Christmas is a religious holiday it has nothing to do with America, apple pie or George Washington. To force others to put up trees or say Merry Christmas is wrong and violates the religious freedom of other individuals.

You are more then welcome to say Merry Christmas, I would in fact encourage Christians to do so, but you can't demand and threaten others into following the same practice. What if you lived in Yemen, would you want the majority to decided for you what, when and how you will celebrate religious holidays? Then why do want to enforce something now that we would never want to be done to us? I just don't get it

BTW It's not political correctness to allow others to say Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings, it just considerate. You don't have to be a jerk to be a Christian, it's possible to be nice to other people and still maintain your Christian beliefs and values. Mean is not a gift of the Spirit.

It is not about "allowing" people to say other things. It is about the many stores FORBIDDING their employees to say it.

And no, Christmas is not a religious holiday. It is a national holiday. Wonder how the liberals would react if a bunch of skin head business owners got together and forbid mention of Martin Luther King day in their stores?

 

[go2church]

Putting up a website with a naughty list, having people call in and report businesses not conforming to your point of view and then telling the businesses how they can get off the naughty list is threatening.

 

[matt wade]

Putting up a website with a naughty list, having people call in and report businesses not conforming to your point of view and then telling the businesses how they can get off the naughty list is threatening.

No, it's called capitalism at it's finest.

 

[Steven2006]

Calling it holiday instead of Christmas.

While I don't like it when stores do it, I do believe they have the right to.

 

[Havensdad]

Putting up a website with a naughty list, having people call in and report businesses not conforming to your point of view and then telling the businesses how they can get off the naughty list is threatening.

Not at all. Have you never heard of the Better Business Bureau? Stores that have oppressive, anti Christian policies, that they FORCE on their employees, SHOULD be boycotted.

 

[Havensdad]

Calling it holiday instead of Christmas.

While I don't like it when stores do it, I do believe they have the right to.

The store has a right, I think to post posters that say "Happy Holidays" rather than Merry Christmas. But when they instruct their employees not to say it, that is going to far. It is a national holiday.

 

[Steven2006]

The store has a right, I think to post posters that say "Happy Holidays" rather than Merry Christmas. But when they instruct their employees not to say it, that is going to far. It is a national holiday.

While that employee is at work on the companies premises, and representing the employer they certainly have the right.

 

[matt wade]

While that employee is at work on the companies premises, and representing the employer they certainly have the right.

I agree with you 100%. The employer has the right to do so.

The consumers also have the right to boycott the store and let others know about their boycott. That's all this is about. For some reason, the liberals on this board don't want others to exercise their freedom and boycott a store.

 

[Havensdad]

While that employee is at work on the companies premises, and representing the employer they certainly have the right.

So you would also be O.K. with Best Buy telling a Muslim employee that they cannot wear their religious garb, or pray on their prayer rug in their store, but they must refrain from all outward displays of Islam?

 

[Steven2006]

So you would also be O.K. with Best Buy telling a Muslim employee that they cannot wear their religious garb, or pray on their prayer rug in their store, but they must refrain from all outward displays of Islam?

Yes absolutely.

If not and it was your way then a Christian small businessman that owned a retail store would have no rights to ask his employees to refrain from anything they chose to "present" to the customers. Do you think that if he employed say a muslim he should have to allow the employees to promote Islam on their holy days? Or say a Wiccan promoting some weird witch type "holiday"?

 

[Havensdad]

Yes absolutely.

Good, now, do you believe there would then be something wrong with the Muslim choosing not to work or shop there? To inform his friends and family?

Or do you believe he should give into that secularization, and just divest himself of his beliefs?

 

[Steven2006]

Good, now, do you believe there would then be something wrong with the Muslim choosing not to work or shop there? To inform his friends and family?

Or do you believe he should give into that secularization, and just divest himself of his beliefs?

I can't speak for what a Muslim should do concerning his convictions.

 

[John Toppass]

I do not see anything wrong with what FBC is doing. I can see how ultra liberals would have a fit over it. The ultra-liberals are more danger to Christianity in public than companies instructing their employees not to say Merry Christmas. (i do not intentionally do business with them)

 

[Steven2006]

Havensdad,

Do you think the Christian businessman that owned a retail store should not have the right to ask his employees to refrain from anything they chose to "present" to the customers. Do you think that if he employed say a muslim he should have to allow the employees to promote Islam on their holy days? Or say a Wiccan promoting some weird witch type "holiday"?

 

[Havensdad]

Havensdad,

Do you think the Christian businessman that owned a retail store should not have the right to ask his employees to refrain from anything they chose to "present" to the customers. Do you think that if he employed say a muslim he should have to allow the employees to promote Islam on their holy days? Or say a Wiccan promoting some weird witch type "holiday"?

I think in such cases, they should inform their Wiccan friends, and boycott the store. The store is not friendly to their beliefs, and they should not shop there. This is a lot different, though; Christmas is a National holiday, recognized outside the Christian sphere.

For that matter, Wiccans (and other pagans) already do say their greetings, and it is one of the "Merry Christmas" alternatives..."Happy Yuletide"

 

[Steven2006]

I think in such cases, they should inform their Wiccan friends, and boycott the store. The store is not friendly to their beliefs, and they should not shop there. This is a lot different, though; Christmas is a National holiday, recognized outside the Christian sphere.

For that matter, Wiccans (and other pagans) already do say their greetings, and it is one of the "Merry Christmas" alternatives..."Happy Yuletide"

You didn't answer the question. Should the owner have the right to ask his employees not to promote their personal religious holidays in his store?

 

[Havensdad]

You didn't answer the question. Should the owner have the right to ask his employees not to promote their personal religious holidays in his store?

Is it a Nationally declared holiday?

 

[Steven2006]

Is it a Nationally declared holiday?

Can you simply answer the question, instead of avoiding it, by asking other questions instead?