Yes.
He brings Scripture to your mind that comforts you.
He fixes your mind on things above which comforts you.
This is still not some ethereal detection device whereby we can "feel" when he is in the room.
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Feel the Spirit?
- Thread starter Luke2427
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Yes.
He brings Scripture to your mind that comforts you.
He fixes your mind on things above which comforts you.
This is still not some ethereal detection device whereby we can "feel" when he is in the room.
Good thoughts here.
I am absolutely for feelings being the results of thoughts about God.
I think we absolutely SHOULD have those.
But this is not what I am addressing. I am addressing this idea that a person can walk into a room and know God is there because he "feels the Spirit."
It's not based on there mind turning to some grand truth about God. It is based on some special ethereal presence of the Spirit and some spiritual sixth sense whereby the sensitive Christian can tell he is there.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
I know when I'm under His influence and when I've chosen to access my own stupidity. I'd say that's a "feeling" of sorts.
I don't understand. Can you expound upon that a bit?
It says, "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" [Ro 14:17], not in the service of God.
You mean like Paul?:
39 A wife is bound for so long time as her husband liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is free to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
40 But she is happier if she abide as she is, after my judgment: and I think that I also have the Spirit of God. 1 Cor 7
I've been to two charismatic services in my life, and yes, I agree, it was utter nonsense what I observed there.
I disagree with you totally. I've felt His presence many, many times in my life, whether it's a feeling of great peace marveling at His creation, or rejoicing over scripture being opened to me, or hearing a wonderful God magnifying sermon that makes my heart soar like a hawk, I'm convinced that's the 'milk & honey' of this spiritual kingdom of the new covenant He has brought us into.
And they said one to another, Was not our heart burning within us, while he spake to us in the way, while he opened to us the scriptures? Lu 24:32
Just as true and pertinent today. Milk & honey. Righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Gambol like calves out of the stall, and all that good stuff...
Just as true and pertinent today. Milk & honey. Righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Gambol like calves out of the stall, and all that good stuff...
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salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
I have heard people say in testimony services that they knew that God was there because they felt the Spirit. I've heard people say after they have heard a message by a preacher, I felt the Holy Spirit in that message. In my area preachers deliverance of a message is some what charismatic regardless of the denomination and if a preacher get's in the pulpit and teaches a message they say there is no Spirit in that. If this is what Luke is referring to, I agree with him.
He's "in the room" whenever a Christian is in the room. But, yes, the presence of the Holy Spirit can be felt, as has been more than adequately demonstrated by the Scriptures presented in this thread.
Nailed that one -------> :thumbs:
Luke has readily acknowledged this one, too. Several times.
His question/challenge is toward the one who might say things like:
Boy, the presence of God is THICK in this place tonight.
I felt His presence as soon as I walked in.
Can't you just feel Him in here?
I've got Holy Ghost goose bumps.
I'm high on the Holy Ghost
I've heard every one of those, as I came out of Charismatic circles.
And as I noted, much of this is Charismania with their feelings-based ?faith?
I once belonged to a somewhat reserved AoG church, but the new young pastor was trying to get people to be more experiential. He used to preach "Fake it til you make it"
And that is an actual quote. He actually preached that from the pulpit regularly
I once visited with a woman who had stopped attending church, and I asked was there something that happened there. Had she been offended by someone?
Her answer was "Those people don't know how to be spiritual."
In her mind, if the service wasn't filled with mayhem, with people "Feeling His presence" and falling on the floor every week, and leaving "High on the Holy Ghost", they weren't being spiritual. Good grief.
And I think it might be this type of person who Luke has in mind. Well, maybe not quite that extreme, but those who are always looking to feel that He's "in the room"
But as you say - He's in the room whenever a Christian is in the room
What does it mean to you "in the Holy Spirit"?
He is inspired by the Spirit of God to write the words we read above. They are actually included in the canon of Scripture. Unless you are for adding to the canon, which I know you are far too sound to be for, then this passage is not applicable to us in the sense of "having the Spirit" like Paul had Him here.
And many baptist testimonies are not much better.
That's the thing that needs to be substantiate. Feeling his presence.
Marveling over his awesome creation is not the same as walking into a room and saying "God is here. I can FEEL it."
ibid
ibid
As opposed to ‘in the flesh’, which, if we’re the least bit honest is where all of us spend the most our time in this realm. But the ‘natural man’ knows NOTHING of the bennies of the kingdom of God, he can’t see it, he can’t enter into it, he can never experience the clean conscience or the joy unspeakable or the peace that passeth understanding ‘in the Holy Spirit’, he can only know the things of the flesh. Why is that?
I could probably write an essay, but I’ll spare you.
And I agree with you on that. I think we’re mostly in agreement on this topic. I just think you’re not giving credit (to the Spirit) where credit is due. Peruse Ro 12, there are many manifestations of the Spirit.
There is a mystical sense in the operation and perception of the Holy Spirit. Charismatics have missed it, and work up a carnal substitute, but you and Luke are reducing it to mere mechanics.
I want to tread carefully with my words, because I don't want to leave any impression that I'm arguing. I say with all sincerity....
At first glance, and judging solely by his first post, I got that same impression of Luke. But then, as this thread has developed, I have seen what he's agreed with. And my perception was influenced by more information.
I don't think it's the case at all that we're reducing the Holy Spirit's impressions and manifestations to mere mechanics.
I know that I, and I believe Luke as well, have a very real and active sensitivity to how the Holy Spirit interacts with our inner being, and how that interaction can overflow into physical manifestations - joy, peace, love, affection, etc, and a mind set on Him and His word, which can make us "feel" like we're on cloud 9.
When we walk in the Spirit, with our mind set on Him, and are thereby filled with Him, there is a very real interaction between the psyche and the body.
As I said in my first bit - if thoughts of fear can make the hair on your neck stand up, and thoughts of your baby dying can produce massive tears, why can't thoughts set on God, provoked by the Holy Spirit, produce a euphoric experience?
And if I were to describe the physical feeling, it might sound like I'm describing what it feels like to be buzzing from alcohol. But it's not like that.
I think both Luke and I would have heavy concerns with the thought that the Holy Spirit sprinkles gold dust in the air around us without bringing our minds into the will of God.
He is influencing our minds from within. And if we aren't being transformed by a renewing of the mind, then I really doubt we're going to have much physically manifested sensations, feelings, or euphoria that we can honestly attribute to Him.
Can a person go to a church service, hoping only to have this euphoric feeling, without any concern for God, seeking only to get high for the afternoon, then off to a Monday and Tuesday filled with selfish desires and the cares of the world? I would have to doubt their euphoria came for the Holy Spirit.
If God is contained in a building, then someone might go to that building and feel Him. He would be present there, and the person would also be present there, and the person would feel the presence of the Holy Spirit there.
I don't doubt at all that God can manifest Himself in very supernatural ways. He came in a burning bush, and pillar of fire. He can interrupt the physical world in any way He so desires
But I have to ask, in all sincerity - have you ever heard someone at a car wash say "I feel His presence here." ?
Or maybe at a picnic, an amusement park, or somewhere like that? Even if it's a Christian gathering, I've never heard that. It's always spoken as if He's present in a building, like the Old Testament temple.
But He's not dwelling in a certain place anymore, He dwells in us. And I believe that means He's working from within us. Paul said, though the outer man is perishing, the inner man is being renewed day by day
It's his working, when we are filled with the Holy Spirit, and our minds are set on Him, that we feel this euphoria. And that will not come and go as we enter and exit a room
Point goes to Aaron ....
..... good, great, point! what is comfort, if it is not a feeling? I think you hit this one out of the park! Others will refute you and use Greek and Hebrew and other seminary hocupus to argue their point, but yours is going to be difficult to refute! An "A+" for the class!
..... good, great, point! what is comfort, if it is not a feeling? I think you hit this one out of the park! Others will refute you and use Greek and Hebrew and other seminary hocupus to argue their point, but yours is going to be difficult to refute! An "A+" for the class!
The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: Ro 8:16
How do you substantiate that the Spirit has indeed communicated to you that you are His child? How has the Spirit borne witness to you that fact?
[add]
It's an open question to all, not just Luke....
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The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: Ro 8:16
How do you substantiate that the Spirit has indeed communicated to you that you are His child? How has the Spirit borne witness to you that fact?
[add]
It's an open question to all, not just Luke....
in 1973 when I received my first New Testament I read it cover to cover in a matter of days.
it wasn't a red letter NT, just a softbound book.
almost every word and phrase seemed to jump out of the book at me, particularly the crucifixion and resurrection chapters.
Before the last chapter of Revelation, in my heart of hearts I KNEW FOR A FACT that I was, and am, a child of God, and if the trumpet sounded I'd be out of this world.
Before I closed that NT I knew ALL my sins were forgiven, past, present, and future.
When were they forgiven ?
I had no idea.
Were they forgiven when I converted back to my Lord ?
I don't know, and frankly, didn't care, because what was important to me was that still, small voice in my head that told me I am His.
Now, a few years with that Baptist group just killed that fire.
Grace, grace, grace, but IF you really are a Christian, don't do this, don't do that, don't go there, don't go here, don't say this, don't say that, yadayadayada don't don't don't, hallelujah.
you get the drift.
Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: Ro 8:16
How do you substantiate that the Spirit has indeed communicated to you that you are His child? How has the Spirit borne witness to you that fact?
[add]
It's an open question to all, not just Luke....
God has revealed in Scripture that he uses means to accomplish his purposes. For example, God can mystically impart the knowledge of Christ apart from the written word and the witness of the christian into the mind of the sinner and make him believe and save him. But God has chosen to reveal the knowledge of Christ through means.
Peace, joy and the inner witness are absolutely things that either are part of or deeply affect our emotional being. But God uses means to impart those things to us. A particular, and I believe primary, means whereby the Spirit of God gives peace, joy and assurance (inner witness) is through the Word of God of which he is the author.
There are other means but I can find no bible support for the idea that God does NOT use such means to impart these things.
What I question is the following scenario.
A man wishes to go to Washington to plant a church. He and his wife drive from city to city trying to discern in which city God wants them to plant. Their testimony is something like this. "We went to city A and just did not have a peace. Then we went to city B and all the demographics and all the information available seemed to indicate that with our particular giftings we could have a very successful ministry there- but we just did not have a peace about it. Then finally we came to city C- now, there was no where really to plant and there seemed to be nothing to suit the use of our particular talents and gifts- but suddenly a peace came over us and we KNEW that this is where God wanted us."
This "peace came over me to let me know which option I should pick" stuff does not appear to me to have the slightest shred of biblical support.
Another example is as follows:
"I don't 'feel the Spirit' in that church where the preacher is always expounding scripture and the old hymns are sung. But I do 'feel the Spirit' over here where the preacher tells great stories for 25 minutes while building our self-image and we sing contemporary music. And I wAnt to be where I can 'feel the Spirit.'"
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